#LDTPoll: Who do you believe on the Russian hacking allegations?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Michael, Jan 8, 2017.

  1. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    The narrative does not depend on Putin's personal intervention, and I am quite sure that discrediting Trump is redundant. Democratic Party political theater is of course objectionable, but this really happened anyway - the Dems didn't make this up.
    Suppose we lived in wingnut fantasy world where Trump was a progressive and socialist and the trend in US politics was toward the the left and a Socialist State. In that alternative reality - quite different from anything found in recent events or existing trends or reasonable probability - almost anything could happen.
    The multiple connections between Trump and the Russian mob would be evidence in themselves, without the various little oddities in Trump's behavior (hiding his business connections with Russia, the advance info, etc) and the obvious timing issues (so unlike a staffer leak) and the RNC hacking sequestration. Russian agency is the most likely even without the various agencies weighing in.

    Meanwhile, the WMD lies did not come from those people. The WMD lies came from Republican Party propaganda operations, and Republican Party political honchos. That's who has the track record of this kind of lying - that's whose word you're taking.
     
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  3. Kittamaru Giving up this insanity for Lent - back ~ 4/15 Staff Member

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    The intent more was to mock you but eh.

    Why can't we be friends? Simple - I deal in facts and reality and logic. I will not befriend someone who continues to be an apologist for someone who has committed repeated atrocities against civilians, gone and simply taken land that isn't his, and generally represents a clear and present threat to our nations guiding principle.

    So you are asserting he was paid, then.
     
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  5. origin Trump is the best argument against a democracy. Valued Senior Member

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    It is nice to see that our President Elect can take time from his busy schedule to insult an actor who insulted him. I think the country is going to be run by someone with the emotional maturity of a 13 year old.
     
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  7. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah, that is kind of scary. I understand the actress in question never once mentioned Trump's name. But I guess it was apparent from her speech who she was talking about. Trump apparently recognized himself.
     
  8. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    So now we have the American right wing citing Russian state owned and controlled media as a reference and authority, my how things have change; my how the Republican Party has changed.
     
  9. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Racist way....? Are Russians now a race? Why can't Russia stop invading, occupying, and annexing the lands of weaker neighboring states? Why is it Russian's can't stop lying and for once be honest? Why can Russia not stop threatening others?

    If Russia wants to be friends, then it needs to stop threatening other states; then and only then can we talk about being friends comrade. It really is that simple. Western powers have drawn a line, and Russia doesn't like it. That's not our problem; that's Russia's problem. If Russia doesn't like the sanctions the Western world has imposed on it, and clearly it doesn't; then Russia needs to withdraw its troops from Georgia and Ukraine and give back the lands it has stolen from its neighbors. It needs to stop harassing the commercial and military traffic of other nations. It needs to stop murdering Syrians and bombing hospitals; then and only then can we talk about being friends, and only then.

    Unfortunately for you and your fellow comrades the world is not as dumb as you need them to be. Not everyone believes Russian fake news and Russian state owned media propaganda.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2017
  10. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Because he is doing Russia's work. He only publishes materials which harm the United States or allied powers. You don't think Russia has a boat load of dirt or that it's cyber defenses are so special? Assange has never ever been critical of Russia or Putin: not once. Additionally, Assange was an employee of the Russian media. That's a matter of public knowledge. Assange has worked for the Russian state owned media, and he may still be working for the Russian state.
     
  11. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Indeed.
     
  12. Kittamaru Giving up this insanity for Lent - back ~ 4/15 Staff Member

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    That's rather insulting to the average 13 year old...
     
  13. origin Trump is the best argument against a democracy. Valued Senior Member

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    LOL...
     
  14. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    Glorious isn't it? This is the festering insect riddled bed we must lie in, modern media has degenerated to the state where the likes to trump is elected and the likes of Russian propaganda is trusted in America.

    It is insulting, 4 year old would be more like it.
     
  15. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    Measure everything our Progressive created Income tax and Progress created Central Bank with its 20 trillion in Progressive T Bonds debts....place all that shit on one side of the scale. This is the influence Progressive Socialism has on our society. On the other side of the scale place the little tiny bit left over, a residue stain of what used to be a free society / free market (like choosing who you can date, not marry to receive a tax credit, but date). There's almost nothing left untouched or uncorrupted by State enforced socialism.

    There's no comparison. Progressive Institutions dominate our entire way of life. State Authoritarianism is accepted as legitimate because we voted, you know, like Slavery once was in our illustrious Republic.

    Well, if you think 100 years of reliance of Progressive State violence ends well, I'd suggest thinking again. That's my opinion. We'll see.

    That said, we have plenty of decades to go.


    We live in your Progressive Social paradise. Don't cry crocodile tears now. You got your socialism. THIS IS the inevitable outcome. Oh, but it's not working as you had planned? NOT enough is it? Just a bit more State violence. A few million more lines of law. A million more civil restrictions. Just a few more taxes, a few more regulations, then.... Finally you Progressives will usher in our North Korean Workers paradise.

    In the meantime, it's all one big wingnut conspiracy. About Russians hackers and not about an old hag political hack who used the political and media machines to push racism for two years while sidelining Bernie Democratic Socialist Authoritarian Sanders.

    No, it's THE RUSSIANS!
    Lol

    Note: The GOP are fully supportive of the status quo. They support our Progressive Socialistic system - they just want to use some if it to pay for their free shit.
    LOL

    You've got to kidding me. Hahahahaha! Talk about wingnut fantasies!


    We would have almost gotten away with it if not for you meddling Hackers....
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
  16. Bells Staff Member

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    Wikileaks have also taken to retweeting Breitbart as though it is fact.

    I think that pretty much sums up the whole of Wikileaks and Assange at this point in time.

    Tell that to the families of the victims on MH17. Tell that to the families of journalists who are killed in Russia, not to mention members of any political opposition to Putin. Tell that to the civilians in Aleppo who are being bombed by Russian forces for daring to be against Putin's puppet, Assad. Tell that to members of the LGBT community in Russia, who are constant targets due to how Putin decides to portray them.

    The list goes on and on.

    It's not that Putin is big and scary. It is that he is dangerous and power hungry, to the point where his political opponents are routinely assassinated and journalists who dare to criticise him end up dead, also assassinated in Russia. Perhaps this is what you enjoy in a political leader? Perhaps this is what you deem to be strength in leadership? It is ironic that Wikileaks remains silent on these issues, isn't it?

    QUOTE="Michael, post: 3428268, member: 10734"]Get this, perhaps what's best for Russia, GAAAAAAAAASP is also best for the average waddling American. That is, less war, more trade.[/QUOTE]
    I wonder if the "average waddling American" will also think it best to have their passenger jets shot down by weapons supplied by Putin's Kremlin? Or will they think it is in their best interest to murder journalists and political opponents? Perhaps they will believe it is in their best interest to commit criminal acts against LGBT and get away with it? Because that's all best for Russia, yes? So this kind of stuff will be good for America as well, yes?

    Just so long as you get more trade, what's the big deal!

    Why do you live in the East or recommend it while deploring things like taxation, regulations, health care reform like Medicare, etc? South Korea, for example, is known for its strict and numerous regulations. You only have to look at how they regulate and censor the internet in South Korea to see just how bad it is.
     
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  17. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    The US Central bank is a privately owned for profit capitalist entity.

    Most of the 20 trillion debt was incurred by granting large tax breaks to income derived from private corporate capital, handing large sums of public money to private capitalist banks and insurance firms of various kinds, and launching full scale failed war at the behest of Republican governance dominated by oil company executives and capitalist military contractors.
    The wingnuts think Trump's Russian business connections are fantasy. That's all you have to know about those folks.

    Think you'll ever get a look at Trump's tax returns?
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
  18. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    There are no free markets in healthcare anywhere. That aside, homogenous societies with competitive internal markets allow for the price mechanism to somewhat work. Not as good as a new market in sound currencies could.
     
  19. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    You're verging into conspiracy theory wingnut territory.

    Where does the Central Bank derive it's authority? From the Government - which it funds. To the tune of trillions and trillions in unfunded liabilities. You know, to pay for all the free shit you Socialists crap on about.

    Small cost though, society itself.


    Note: The Progressives gave us income-tax and a Central Banking cartel. They had to. That's how Authoritarian Statism pays for the free shit, via violence.

    Note2: We use debt based fiat currency, not capital. We're debtists, not capitalists.

    Note3: It's not that we're on the decline. We are living IN the post-decline, that's still declining and will continue to do so for decades. Then the Welfare State will collapse. I'm sure that'll be fun times.

    It just appears normal from the inside. It's normal to have ghettos and gangs and drugs and never ending war. Normal to die from healthcare error or graduate a functional illiterate. But only on the inside. And to be sure, it's far from normal. Here where I sit, all of that would be beyond reprehensible. It would be seen as a social sickness. anyway, reasoning left the table long ago. No one wants the answers because the cognitive biases suck to accept. Or they d in nt want to seem as of they're not part of the team. Team America. LOL
    Now it's all about the feels.

    Note4: What do you suppose a century of State Authoritarianism does to the private market. You remember, that place where moral trade between consenting adults took place? Eighty years ago it was then understood power had shifted from us, free people, to the government buracracy. And there it's remained. Thus, if you want change, you'll need to do it through violence against morally innocent humans. No better way to do that, then through a wealthy powerful strongman. As functionally illiterate Americans are learning. Let's see how that works for us across the decades.

    Progressives opened Pandora box 100 years ago, out came the Great Depression, WWII, never ending phony wars, hyper regulation of society, spy agencies almost right out of Nineteen Eighty Four. And I believe, this is only the beginning.

    It's all downhill from here.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
  20. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    Still waiting on the evidence.
     
  21. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    Children will be born with birth defects today, cleft pallette, missing limbs or stunted, mentally regressed in development thanks to our use of chemical warfare in Vietnam. And indeed, that's just the beginning. Russia has the GDP of Italy, we spend more in a couple weeks than they spend in an entire year, we're the largest arms dealer, we have the millions of solders, never ending phony wars, and largest arms dealers in history.

    Us. Not Russia. Us.

    Not to mention the nice little smochy smooch Obama got in the cheek from the sultan of Arabia. Oh yes, Peace Prize wieners are more than happy to chum about with dictatorships that hang gays, reporters, LGBT, atheists, Christians, other Islamic sects, and etc...

    I'm not too worried about Russia. They're nothing comparably.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
  22. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    It's a privately owned, for profit, capitalist entity. Always has been. The antithesis of socialism.
    Once again confusing currency with capital. A basic error - fundamental mistake.
     
  23. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    29,915
    WWII was the fault of the evil Progressives, now, Michael? What role, if any, did Hitler and Japan play in that war? Did they have any influence? Or were they Progressives, too?
     

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