Leaving America: Giving up citizenship

Discussion in 'Free Thoughts' started by Islamsmylife, Jun 12, 2011.

  1. Absane Rocket Surgeon Valued Senior Member

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    How immoral is that? Leaving the US with the hopes of expunging some debts? These are your debts so you should be responsible for them. You knew what you were getting into right before going into debt.

    Why not just get a high paying job overseas in a country whose cost of living is low to pay off your debts quickly?
     
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  3. Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah, why oh why??? (I mean seriously, like it is that easy)
     
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  5. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Three things. You forgot taxes. After a judge approves your petition for bankruptcy you are still liable for your student loans, your child support payments, and your past-due taxes (with interest).

    If you have any large debts to the government, you attempt to leave, and fail for any reason, they'll put you on a watch list and it will be very difficult to make a second attempt. You'll probably have to sneak across the Mexican border hiding in the back of a truck with no ventilation or air conditioning.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2011
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  7. Me-Ki-Gal Banned Banned

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    I hear you ! I think you are a little harsh . I believe in basket weaving , The economic system don't . Production is the name of the game if you all don't know . It is the reality we live in . We are consumers to the power structures that be . The system is dependent on consumers consuming . Growth creates wealth . If you don't grow your market share and improve profits then your value goes down . The system sucks and is social slavery . If the world contracts the ponzi scheme is up . It is all just a matter of time for when the system implodes. O.K. I am veering off course . College is a business , Churn em burn em
     
  8. scifes In withdrawal. Valued Senior Member

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    islam doesn't allow loans with interest. it's one of the biggest red X signs.
    "Riba", it's called.
     
  9. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

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    Although this is rather off-topic, I think it's well worth pointing out.

    The statement I've quoted above is one of the BIGGEST myths there ever was in economics and capitalism!!! I see people repeating it time and time again here - they never seem to learn.

    Market share and profits absolutely do not HAVE to grow for a business to be *highly* successful. A company can have a stable market and consistently show a 10% profit year after year and pay a similar amount in dividends to its shareholders (the owners). If it continues in that vein FOREVER it is still making money and doing quite well without adding a single element to EITHER market share or profits.

    I simply cannot understand why intelligent people can't comprehend something so glaringly simple. :shrug:
     
  10. NMSquirrel OCD ADHD THC IMO UR12 Valued Senior Member

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    true enough..but the value is dependent on what one compares it with..
    is the value rated in growth or profit?
    if profit, your argument holds true, but not with growth.
    (i would consider my company successful if i had a little money left over at the end of the bills.)
     
  11. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

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    Growth isn't important once a reasonable level has been attained. Just as you said in your parenthetical statement, it's the bottom line that really counts.
     
  12. Me-Ki-Gal Banned Banned

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    The thing you don't get is expanding markets . When you are talking percentages funny things happen and if you don't reach a certain target in market share you get left behind or gobbled up by competitors working to get your market share so they can lower there price because now they can LOWER THERE PROFIT PERCENTAGE. You need to know how the real world works . If you got a niche business with out competition or have a patten and can only make the product your self, Fine and dandy , but one day the patten will run out and competitors will take a good "percentage" of your market share and in order for you to maintain your comfortable production levels enough to pay overhead , salaries . and what have you your going to have to attract more market share or go belly up . 10% of a dollar is what?if you only make a dollar you are screwed, Are you a progressive in the computer industry ? You might have it good now and be thinking about your endless customer base , or you may even be doing just fine with your same old same old customers every day the same , That will change in time . Enjoy it while it lasts. The Young buck carpenters thought like that when there was good times not knowing days like these were in there futures .
    O.K. you can wait and see what happens when emerging markets take more U.S. G.D.P. and produce it at a cheaper rate .

    O.K. I am getting way off . You should start a new thread about this Topic . See if we can dig out the truth . Is Expansionism related to growing wealth? Or something like that
     
  13. Me-Ki-Gal Banned Banned

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    You also are not taking into consideration inflation and the cost of raw materials . Supply and demand is dependent on quantities. If it becomes scarce the cost sky rockets and the business is no longer stable . So what happens , More companies "Expand" into the markets because of the added value in raw materials . Right now you know Gold mining is at an all time high because of the added value . So if your a business person fresh out of school you might be thinking well that just means more dollars by way of ten percent added on the new cost of goods so I ain't affected , unless you price your self out of the market , like gas hitting historic highs in 2008 , Not to mention presser on raw materials from emerging markets .

    O.K. I know my post is losing coherency. The point is there are lots of factors specific to lots of businesses and a blanket statement does not cover the worlds beast
     
  14. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

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    Nope, you've got some good ideas but you still don't see what I'm getting at - and my point is VERY valid.

    Let's take one real company and get you to think a little more in-depth, OK?

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    (And also remember that your concern about inflation is a bogus one, really. Your profit percentage always takes inflation into account.)

    Here's one - Verizon. Even though they are loosing money as the wireline business continues to shrink, they are still maintaining approx. 41 cents per share which is a tremendous amount. The majority of that comes from wireless revenues though they have other ventures as well. All they have to do is maintain their customer base - get new ones as old ones drop out (what they call "churn"). They can do so by expanding their network, selling ever-increasing capabilities with their phones and maintaining competitive rates. They do NOT need to add a SINGLE new customer to maintain that level of profitability as long as they keep replacing the ones they loose.

    They can also do some things to help hold onto that customer base - like improving customer service.

    So the bottom line is that they are already big enough and really have NO need to expand in order to remain successful and quite profitable. Really -it's just that simple.
     
  15. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    Too bad. We do allow loans with interest. I guess he should have gone to live in Islam.
     
  16. Me-Ki-Gal Banned Banned

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    Increasing capabilities is expansion my friend. It is a component of internal growth . I rest my case . I understand percentage pretty good seeing how I ran a corporation for the last 20 years . Now here is a scenario for you , Signed government contracts with production clauses in them and if not met daily fines are leaved against the total amount of the contract. You have estimated X amount of compensation for providing the product . O.K. normal markets go haywire and the cost of raw materials goes up . Your slippage in the over all job now is in jeopardy, yet a new corporation is coming on line in the next month to provide the raw material at the old price . So you fined the equilibrium to minimize the loss of expected profits . The profits end up in actual out come lets say 5% , yet or half of the expected dollar amount of the original expected profits . Was it only 5% or was it more than 5%? Lets say the new cost of doing business was increased because of the cost of going over your time limit and your being penalized or the cost of buying raw materials at a higher cost. The Job cost more so in reality the projected profits should have been higher . Lost revenue in the way of profits that would have been there if the expected glitch in market fluctuations had have been known . Course cell phone providers got us by the nads cause they can raise rates . Everybody wants a cell phone , even little kids , Flat screen T.V.'s too
     
  17. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    They get around that by structuring the loan differently and simply calling it a kind of fee. Mohammed Yunus founded the Grameen bank, revolutionized the Bangladeshi economy, and won the Nobel Prize, by making "micro-loans" to people trying to start micro-businesses, on which the "interest" is charged in creative ways that don't violate the religion.

    BTW, the medieval Christians mistranslated the Old Testament in the same way: rendered a particular Hebrew word as "usury" rather than simply "interest." This was one of the many reasons for the Dark Ages: their economy was stifled for lack of capital. However, they did not find a reason to believe that it was immoral to borrow money. So the Jews, who knew how to translate the Old Testament correctly because their scholars could all read Hebrew fluently, happily lent them their money at interest. As a result the Jews became Europe's bankers.

    The Christians decided the reason for this was that they were in league with the devil, refusing to recognize their own stupidity.
     
  18. Me-Ki-Gal Banned Banned

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    Oh Faggle you are a smart Guy . I like that " In League with the "Devil " Translation from English to symbolism cause I like you Bro . "The White American Man with his plastic finger " I got plastic finger from a Jimmi Hendrix song . The lyric went something like " Get away from me White Man with your plastic finger . I forget . Great song , wish I remembered enough to google it .
     
  19. Stoniphi obscurely fossiliferous Valued Senior Member

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    HRE Constantine's burning all of the books he could lay his hands on also certainly helped usher in the Dark Ages...as did his (very silly) mother. There was something about a "little ice age" too, and some kind of a plague thingie.

    Bubonic, I think they called it.

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  20. Me-Ki-Gal Banned Banned

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    I like his mother . She found the true cross on my birthday . Makes Me the Carpenter feel special . She was probably as silly as Me . I think maybe she was ? Her and Mary Magdalene. Those were some wild and crazy gals , I got to believe they were . His story makes Me think it is true
     
  21. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Actually the plague was a boost to the European economy. It killed one-third of the population, so everyone ended up with 50% more wealth. Another stimulus that occurred about a century later was the importation of coffee from Ethiopia. Europeans had let the Roman sewers deteriorate so the continent was one giant cesspool and the water was undrinkable, so everybody drank beer and was buzzed all the time. When they started drinking coffee instead, the continent's average IQ increased by about thirty points.

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  22. VoidSet Registered Senior Member

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    On a side note, how many posts do I need to get an avatar pic and message that replaces "RegisteredUser"? [The website finds me incapable of posting my own threads, I hit the post buttons and get nothing but a white page, a clear error]
     
  23. scifes In withdrawal. Valued Senior Member

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    they can get around it in a million and one ways, and many islamic banks do.
    but many islamic banks don't, they bring profit by investing the money kept at their bank, i don't know if they offer loans, as there's nothing in it for them.. there are many good books on islamic finance, if you want me to recommend a few.

    there's a rule in islamic finance that "any loan that generates profit is Riba or usury", the only allowed philosophy behind loans is good will and trying to help others, nothing else.
     

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