London riots: Violence erupts for third day

Discussion in 'World Events' started by Ghost_007, Aug 9, 2011.

  1. phlogistician Banned Banned

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    I disagree. First, two wrongs don't make a right, so MPs fiddling expenses doesn't give a chav the right to go smash someone's business to pieces. The rioters were not striking out at the Govt, but just smashing and looting. The rioters have coerced each other to the point people have been killed. There is NO excuse for their behaviour.
     
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  3. Pinwheel Banned Banned

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    I disagree. The problem is the same theiving politicians are the ones demanding draconian measrues. No-one is saying the rioters are OK 'cause the politicians steal too.
     
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  5. Anti-Flag Pun intended Registered Senior Member

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    Politicians don't steal, they defraud the system using perfectly legal loopholes. It's totally different.
    Apparently.
     
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  7. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

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    Sorry I didn't mean to offend grandma-nasties. (j/king)

    Rioters are slaves, when they start rioting just to steal branded merchandise then they are slaves to fashion, corporations, advertisement etc.
     
  8. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

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    Most of those "peasants" either were directly on Social support or through their families. They get money for "nothing", they might suggest they don't have jobs because they aren't there, or suggest they aren't offered jobs, but if you analyse their attitudes, would you employ them?

    I mean would you employ someone that if they felt had some burden to bare would just steal things from their employer to make it right?

    If anything the only reason they rioted was because the government started to close in on benefit fraud, so they can't claim as three or four different people any more.
     
  9. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

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    In the years of the Cold War, governments use to worry about how various sleeper agents would infiltrate groups to manipulate them for other governments agenda's, over the years obviously the cold war died, however the strategy remains and is something that can be employed by even the domestic government in question.
     
  10. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    You may want to refer to this:

    These are kids on vacation, not unemployed dolts on the dole.

    That said, its hardly surprising that the English would have a lower tolerance for austerity measures than say, the people of Gaza. That speaks to the general attitudes towards material wealth in western society and the unsupported assumption that the poor will be more amenable to being stripped of their meagre earnings than the rich to increased taxation


     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2011
  11. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    On austerity measures: [based on which, London better prepare for more riots next year]

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2010/nov/08/education-maintenance-allowance-cuts

     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2011
  12. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    What percentage are claiming more than one benefit?

    Ever thought of becoming a taxi driver?
    Or a Van driver in Essex?

    You'd fit in perfectly.
     
  13. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    @SAM. You are amazing.
    You know far more about British politics than most British people do.
    (no sarcasm intended)

    When are you going to go into politics?


    You might like these videos, showing two women's reaction to the rioting.

    The first woman is a bit eccentric, but not wrong in what she says.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZcZuKLduAg&feature=related

    The second woman uses a lot of foul language, but she makes a lot of sense.
    I've listened to her since, on the radio, and she is a very pleasant articulate woman.
    Her daughter was mortified when she saw this on TV.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCS7c__OSBw

    Can you understand what these people are saying?
    I find it a little difficult myself.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2011
  14. phlogistician Banned Banned

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    That is exactly what I perceive Gustav's post to be.
     
  15. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Not really, I just operate on the assumption that people are the same everywhere and its usually true

    Never. I'm a better researcher than a speaker.


    I can understand a bit of both, the first one has a thick patois which makes a lot of the words incomrprehensible but she seems to be stressing compassion and the second one is denouncing the fricking "cause" as non-existent when compared to the destruction

    The women understand, better than the kids do, that the violence will rebound on them. But when those 620,000 kids lose the financial support that keeps them in school and all those old people move back in with their kids after the homes close down...its a pressure cooker in the making. This is what I don't understand. Is the government stupid? What do they think these kids are going to do when they see their futures wiped out for a financial crisis caused by the rich who get away scot free? Do they really believe their ivory towers are so inviolate?
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2011
  16. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    She had an interview on the radio.
    As soon as I heard her I thought, mmmh, this woman can talk well.
    I liked her.
    I hadn't seen the video.
    If I can find a link to it, I will.

    The main thrust is that the riots are counter productive.
    They are protesting against injustice, but doing it in a criminal way which undermines their own cause.
    A good number of them must rightly spend time in prison.
    She was telling them to "Get Real".

    Different issue, but I believe there will be a drive to control the internet in the UK. I believe that they have at least partially succeeded in doing this in Australia.
    Our newspapers are toeing the line as usual.

    There is one newspaper called the Daily Mail, which attacks foreigners, asylum seekers, and people on benefits, every single day.
    My brother buys it. And I always say to him, "Ah you've bought today's Der Sturmer"
    Just for interest, you might like to have a look at their website.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2011
  17. Pinwheel Banned Banned

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    No they kicked off when a black drug dealer got shot dead. Then the rest saw all hell break lose and joined in. Phlog is right in one respect, this was not political even though the difficulties in the UK made it easier for it to happen (I doubt this would have happened during the boom times). The student protests were politicial, these were not.
     
  18. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Probably, but you expect reason and logic from kids whose futures have been sacrificed by politicians? What do they gain by not rioting?

    Thats like saying World War I only happened because Archduke Ferdinand was assassinated - do people outside Tottenham even know about Duggan? When the riots occur far beyond the vicinity of the incident, the cause is more widespread and the social unrest about more than the response to a single death
     
  19. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    The students.
    They are being screwed over,
    but at least they have their literacy and numeracy.
    They'll get some job, whatever it is.
    And they also rioted.

    This is rash, stupid anger. They are burning their neighbour's cars, and closing down local shops that they need.

    What is needed is cool, prolonged, controlled anger.
    They are right to be angry.
     
  20. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    How does cool prolonged controlled anger work in their favour?

    For example, in March 2011:

    http://www.tottenhamjournal.co.uk/n...ment_reaches_double_national_average_1_837009

    This situation has been simmering for a long time. Now add the students who cannot afford to go to school and the additional care of elderly relatives who lose their benefits. Plus the threat of evictions from council housing [cherry on the pie]

    What would you do in their position?
     
  21. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    Well if you are justifying arson, looting and homicide, that's where our opinions must diverge.
    Particularly when they are destroying their own infrastructure, in an area which is already lacking in amenities.

    How can that make sense?
     
  22. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    You can get all morally righteous or you can discuss the situation. Revolt of the lower classes are very common and they are often expressed as riots, arson, looting, and in extreme cases like the French revolution, a massacre of the upper classes. The best way to combat a riot is to ensure that it is not repeated and unless you examine the conditions you're likely to face the same situation again. Taking revenge on individuals will not substitute for a stable social order

    After all, these are not the first riots in Tottenham

    And the thresholds for tolerance now are lower - this is after all, the ADHD generation brought up on 5 second attention span
     
  23. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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