Looking Forward: Prematurity, Misadventure, and the Wreck of a Presidency

You are not reliable. There was precisely no reason for him to start bawling about Hillary Clinton in this thread. Furthermore, it really doesn't help to say one doesn't support someone or something right before going off about absolute bullshit in support of that someone or something; no, really, that one ought to be pretty obvious, but, you know, never mind those pesky things like consistency—or, you know, basic integrity—when you're a believer in something specific, eh? Which, of course, brings around to the point of, you know, he can be as self-righteous as he wants, but maybe he could leave his hillaryphobia where it belongs so nobody needs to tell him to cram it.

 

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It wasn't a system. It was a defined and identifiable and organized and thirty years a-building faction of the American public - the ones who looked at twenty other candidates for President, and one by one refused to vote for a single one of them in preference to Donald Trump.

Many because politicians were all just as bad, on the principle that both sides are as bad as each other in any political conflict; many because "liberals" done them wrong and dissed them; many because liberals (and especially Clinton) are evil monsters out to kill Jesus and babies and Fosters and Patriotism and Freedom and 'Murica itself; they had all kinds of dingbat excuses,

but all of them because they simply aren't decent, informed, reasonable adult citizens of the country they claim to respect. They aren't. They are immature, childish, temper tantrums on two feet. They're Fredos, dealing with the bad guys because that's the only way they can get "respect".

They just flunked citizenship 101, same as when they failed to keep W out of the White House in 2000 and 2004, same as any three-year-old beating their heels on the supermarket floor. And they will again, because they are incapable of taking responsibility for the consequences of their actions on their own,
and there is an entire industry of sales and marketing and media devoted to preventing their being held accountable by others,
and there is an entire industry of professional media and political operatives devoted to rigging elections with them.

It's a problem.

 

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pot, meet kettle
(hence the link)

what, exactly?
that you can be as self-righteous as you want because ...???
(again: link)

you're no person to go off on anyone about being self righteous
or about integrity, for that matter
(again: link)

what there was no reason for was the flaming replies or the soapbox piggyback echo chamber that you not only advocated for, but jumped right in the middle of in order to insure everyone was positive about your position on the matter

****

but i guess the subtly of that point was lost

EDIT: the thread is in politics, right?
so, you're saying that no one is allowed to have any opinion that doesn't reaffirm your own beliefs anymore?
is it now against your superior MOD beliefs to make a statement of personal opinion in a political thread?

all politics are opinions: everything is subjective
very little of it can be definitively proven with objective facts

you can prove that [x] did [y], but can you really state that the mere mention of opinion about the rock/hard place is justifiable set up for a flame baiting comment from anyone and subsequent echo chamber attack from a MOD?

and i suppose pointing this out is... what?
poor form on my part?
bad manners?
are you infallible?

or is this all because you started the thread and are a MOD and the rest of us are illiterate idiots, especially those who do not echo your sentiments exactly, so we can't possibly be educated to the point of your obvious superior knowledge which is so clearly demonstrated in the provided link?


now that is something to chew on, eh?

Hmm...

 

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That's no excuse for posting Hillaryhate from the talk radio sewer.

Please. We're talking about the "mere mention of the opinion" that Hillary Clinton is a "monster". And not the first time, from that poster - other times, before, and likewise without evidence or argument.

Sure one can have opinions. But adults are accountable for their opinions. And when they are shit opinions from the talk radio sewer, the poster of them is assumed to be an adult and accountable for posting shit from the talk radio sewer on this forum. That means being held in contempt, and mocked for their immaturity and gullibility and irresponsibility as American citizens.

Or as observed:

 

I can't believe you actually edited your post in order to tack on a straw man.

I mean, shit, dude, you actually put effort into whining, and you did it dishonestly.

Do you ever stop making stuff up?

Honestly, you're not fooling anyone: Oh no! Something you like is being criticized! Quick, change the subject! Oh, poor Donald Trump! Oh, poor Hillaryphobes! Oh, poor racists! Oh, poor you!

 

as you say but this is not my point..
My point can be exampled by simply placing a rule on candidacy that disqualifies a person from eligibility if :

They have been declared bankrupt or convicted of any counts of deception, perjury etc.

and add rules that are appropriate and conform with the constitution.

It doesn't matter what party is involved as all would have to qualify first before running for president.

At the moment a non-English speaking citizen with crime syndicate links could run and successfully achieve the presidency if the Republican machine got behind them.

 

Certainly at the very least the national discussion about what it takes to be a fit and proper president needs to be had...and changes made to the electoral college before they become tragically necessary. ( beyond the tragedy that is happening today with Trump)
"Trump is a pussy when compared to what could be happening..."

 

Just saw Anderson Cooper's town-hall meeting with Al Gore. Now that Mr. Gore has dropped his lecture style, I was truly impressed with his passion and compassion for the Nation's citizenry and the future that awaits us.

IMO, at the least he will be remembered in history as a true visionary and if he decided to run again, I'd vote for him in a minute.

His new film "An Inconvenient Truth II" is just being released. I can't wait to see it.
A Ted Talks presentation by Gore on his vision.


To those who have not read his biography and the qualities he would bring to the Office of the President, I urge all to read the life story of this extra-ordinary individual.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Gore

 

how do you know it's not based upon personal experience?
unlike you, some people might actually have gotten out a bit in life...

and this is the problem, really: you interpreted his comment to be, and i will quote your description verbatim, "Hillaryhate from the talk radio sewer"

you didn't attempt to actually determine if he had any valid reason, personal or otherwise
you simply produced your unfounded assertions about his cranial location
but that is based upon your own personal opinion, and it's not justified by what i read

you make the argument that you're justified because of the mere mention of hillary, and likely you consider history important: well your own derogatory inflammatory attacks on anyone arguing a counterpoint to your own comments are also historical evidence of trolling, flaming and baiting

so how responsible are you, really?
the responses surely don't indicate an adult response, by you or the mod in this case, and "it's being held in contempt, and mocked for [both of your] immaturity and gullibility and irresponsibility as American citizens"

it aint strawman if it's relevant, especially considering your demonstrated history of echo chamber tactics or the fact that you brought it up (see link)
oh, and demonstrated history of lack of integrity (see link)
and demonstrated history of being self righteous (see link)
and lets not forget the demonstration of "precisely no reason" OT diversions of your murder soliloquy (see link)

pot, meet kettle

that is your opinion
i think i proved my point about your own dishonest actions (see link)

so your soapbox won't work with me

we may share some opinions, but that doesn't mean i approve of your bullsh*t

so, you get caught and now you want to make this about everything but your own BS?

you're the one projecting and advocating the hate talk right now, not i
i made a point that the comment can be taken more than one way, and that your actions are hypocritical (see link)

to be clear:
to a fanatical rabid defender of hillary, the comment is ... let me quote ice... "Hillaryhate from the talk radio sewer"
you defend this with your own hypocritical arguments and BS
that is a matter of fact, and it's demonstrated in your own posts

not one of you asked for clarification or specifics, but you seemed to think the comment "You'd have to have had your head up Limbaugh's ass for thirty years to believe that" is justified, per your personal attack and self righteous indignation

historically, can you show where Toad advocated for trump?
i can't find anything in any personal or public post that wasn't offered with sarcasm or humour...

I can, however, show many instances where he has stated dislike for both candidates, in public and private correspondence (and on multiple sites as well)

so by all means, since you want to talk evidence, please demonstrate why Toad is "worse than useless halfwit Trumplickers out there trying to tongue the same filthy groove"

lets drag history and how you interpret things into the mix and clarify this (like that link)
lets talk about making stuff up and presenting your own opinion supported only by your echo chamber instead of facts (see link)

Do you ever stop making stuff up? (no: see link)

Honestly, you're not fooling anyone: Oh no! Something you like is being criticized! Quick, change the subject! Oh, poor MOD! Oh, poor irrational mis-interpreter of reality! Oh, poor racists! Oh, poor you!

 

It's a political judgment, justifying a vote and explaining an election. Clinton's personal morality or lack of same, her evil in private life whatever, is constrained enough that 25 years of concerted effort by billionaire funded investigators with absolutely no qualms of honor or class solidarity have not revealed it - that limits its public or political relevance in a comparison with Trump to near zero.

I know he doesn't, and so do you. Clinton has been in the national spotlight since 1992. He has had months, years, on this forum and right there, to explain his personal stuff as a personal matter of no relevance to others.

Your inability to read - anything, the newspaper, over thirty years - is not persuasive.

As soon as "mere mention of Hillary" appeared before your typing self, and you didn't correct it, you invalidated your entire post.

Not that it had any validity in the first place. Too bad about the horrible derogatory attacks on the innocent poster of Hillaryhate, and their offense to your years of civil and polite and always well justified descriptions of Democrats and liberals and posters who disagree with you, but karma's more of a bitch than Clinton could dream of being: suck it up, snowflake, it's the Trump era of public discourse - thanks to you.

Because Hillaryhate, the continual barrage of sewage from the talk radio and then the cable TV and now the internet, is perhaps the single most important factor, or symptom of it, in the long progression to disaster that brought us the disaster, W, ruined the recovery, Obama, and insisted beyond all reason in bringing us the disaster, Trump, again.

And the people who brought us the disaster, with their "mere mentions" and yadda? you guys at least have to look at it. No bullshit about "rock and a hard place" - look at what you did. It's your fault. Nobody put a gun to your head, nobody set up a counter-equivalent of the rightwing sewage media and made you choose between evils, nobody ran equivalent monsters for office and prevented you from behaving like an adult, that's all bs. You own this.

 

really should have stopped there: it's subjective

1- you don't know. you are hoping you know based upon your beliefs
2- i do know, and he does have a valid reason to dislike hillary (as do i)

this is my point, and we can discuss this rationally, but considering it's politics, i am pretty sure it will degrade

this point i made was made specifically about Toad's comments: so where are the 30 year old comments you're basing your point on?

more to the point: how is this relevant to your interpretation of his comment if you don't have a 30 year history with Toad?

all you can do at this point is validate my argument of fanatical belief , really... especially considering the context of the argument (Toad's comment) and your vehement flaming retort that you're now attempting to defend with distraction or claims of 30 years history

no it doesn't invalidate my post
my point is about your fanatical beliefs and your willingness to interpret anything you choose as a negative slant or attack against your personal belief system

the point he made was a great point about rocks and hard places, and poor choices
that is how i interpret this point because i don't have a vested interest in either party
you, however, chose to make it about a personal attack

oddly enough, that is exactly the point i am making and that you just validated
thanks

before you begin your tirade of irrelevant BS, why is this relevant to the specific point of your own flaming baiting post to Toad?

you're attempting to stray away from the point by justifying your behaviour due to mass media - that makes you exactly like trump and his fake news BS, doesn't it?

what you're saying is that because [x] has an opinion you personally interpret as [y], regardless of your inability to prove that it actually means [y], it's justifiable to denigrate and descend to curses, ad hominem and libelous hostility to defend your belief

tell me again how that isn't trump in a nutshell [emphasis on "nut"]

just because one has a delusional belief in bigfoot, does that mean it's real?

let me own exactly what i stated and what i will now state, so listen up trump-ice:
you made an ASSumption based upon your own personal belief about what was said
you didn't ask for clarity, nor did you justify your argument with any evidence that i can see yet
none

yet you claim 30 years of evidence when i specifically made the argument

so sh*t or get off the pot: where is the 30 years experience with Toad justifying your belief?

then you claim that it's because mass media and spreading "Hillaryhate" - ok, so mass media spreads false claims
it's the responsibility of every person to validate it
more to the point, if it's libelous, then there are laws - i aint seen anything in court to date, but i am willing to allow you to link those court cases proving libel
so again, sh*t or get off the pot: link the evidence or STFU already

*

the bulk of your argument rests upon:
1- your belief that this is what was meant with no evidence
2- your claims of 30 year history that are irrelevant due to the context and the point of the discussion - still no evidence
3- your demonstration of trump tactics and your fanaticism just because someone made mention of something you chose to interpret your own way with (yup. you guessed it) no evidence

and i've known her for longer than that, so i feel justified in my opinion of her
ya gonna tell me i'm wrong now because i've met the woman and worked with her?

by all means - have at it, trump-ice!
display more of this fanaticism that mimic's trump and dig your hole deeper

 

They needed a salesman to sell their low-quality product. And they got a good salesman, or so it was rumored by the salesman himself. And they bought it, not knowing he was already bought. Oh, the irony.

 

I consider myself as a reasonably objective person, but I cannot find a compelling reason for the pure hatred for Hillary Clinton. Can you explain why you believe Mrs Clinton is such a despicable person? What crime did she commit for which she should be despised, let alone be "locked up"?

 

You're missing the point.
I don't care about your personal reasons, or his. They aren't valid reasons to allow Trump, or any current Republican, into the White House, and you clearly know that (you keep deflecting). Inflicting talk radio sewage and Republicans and Trump on the country because you don't like Clinton personally, elevating your concerns to "rock and a hard place" status compared with a Trump presidency, is what I'm disparaging as a failure of adult citizenship.

So is it politics or isn't it? Make up your mind.

It was a juvenile excuse for voting a tantrum, sitting out adult responsibilities as a citizen of a democracy.

No, it's not "both sides" and "everybody" and "the mass media" spreading "false claims". That's bs, and you guys don't get to play that game any more, now that you've stuck the country with Trump.

And when you dissemble and misrepresent and scratch over the rightwing talk radio sewage directly at issue with some generalized "mass media" yak, like a cat covering turds, you underline your unreliability as a Clinton evaluator.

Nope. I'm going to tell you that Trump is your fault, spreading talk radio sewage is a bad thing for you to do and have done;
and in passing point out that the guy who posted this:

is obviously not a reliable evaluator of Hillary Clinton or anyone else targeted by the Pretty Little Hate Machine that the Republican media became a couple of decades ago. You post all this deflection and disingenuous bs, and expect me to take your word for anything Clinton?

I didn't make an argument. I'm not bothering - Trump is right there on the TV.
I disparaged and mocked a poster of excuses and talk radio swill who was trying to justify having allowed Trump into the White House.

Trump is a fanatic? Seriously? But he would have to be, of course, to be the other side of a bothsides schtick in which one side was already supposed to be fanatical. So hey presto, he is.

Keep scratching, cat - get enough dirt flung, maybe nobody will smell a thing.

This is your President, elected with your help and according to your judgment. You guys own the Trump presidency. And my bet is you aren't going to get away with Trump as easily as you got away with W.

 

You are a damned fool, sounding like Farsight, repeating the the same phrase as if the repetition makes it true. Ignoring things laid before you as verifiable fact, then being "incited" to radical speech of your own. Neither I nor Stumpy voted for the fool, but we are belittled and attacked for having done so.

How the fuck does that work in your inestimable view?

 

I ignored nothing in your posts. Incited is your term, not mine. And nothing I posted was "radical".

Not by me. You are replying to me, right?
Why do you suppose you can't post three sentences without defensive misrepresentations like that? My posts are right there. They are not vague, complex, or difficult to read.

 

But you're an idiot in my opinion, which why I have you on ignore. I've clicked past the "You are ignoring content by this member" just so I can take in more stupid for a daily supplement.

Thanks.

 

How about just the past 30 year history of the US ? IMO, that would give us an objective review of the actions and results of the various Presidential stewardships.

 

On a related note, Trump's approval rating just hit . . .. 33%. Almost a third of the US now supports him! That's more than Obama!*

(* - alternative fact)

 

If I may be permitted to offer a small correction.
In context of approval rating, that should read " less than Obama"
In context of disapproval rating it would be "more (greater) than Obama".....?