# Discussion: Lorentz invariance of certain zero angles

Discussion in 'Formal debates' started by Pete, Nov 25, 2011.

1. ### PeteIt's not rocket surgeryRegistered Senior Member

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This is the discussion thread for [thread=111142]Debate: Lorentz invariance of certain zero angles[/thread]

[thread=111135]Proposal thread[/thread]

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3. ### NMSquirrelOCD ADHD THC IMO UR12Valued Senior Member

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any chance of clarification for us laypeople?
don't think i could understand if it was explained, but its worth a shot..

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5. ### TachBannedBanned

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Once the debate started , we can no longer answer. Watch the Debate thread, the answers are there.

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7. ### PeteIt's not rocket surgeryRegistered Senior Member

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Hi Tach,
As per our agreed format/rules, we need to agree on and clarify the scenario before moving on to methodology etc.

May I suggest that we only address a single issue in each post, to make sure we don't slip into misunderstanding?

8. ### PeteIt's not rocket surgeryRegistered Senior Member

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I have to take my son to cricket now, will post to debate afterward.

9. ### TachBannedBanned

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Well, I addressed the scenario and I provided the calculations. There isn't much left , unless you disagree with the calculations.

10. ### prometheusviva voce!Registered Senior Member

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I'd hardly call that a calculation. It's pretty much you stating a result.

11. ### TachBannedBanned

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This is because the derivation is trivial, all the information is there. I would be more than happy to explain it in greater detail, what part did you need help with? Please let me know and I will be more than happy to explain it to you.

Last edited: Nov 26, 2011
12. ### PeteIt's not rocket surgeryRegistered Senior Member

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You agreed to the rules, I'd like you to stick to the agreement.

I will proceed as agreed, and make sure we agree on the scenario before going any further.

13. ### TachBannedBanned

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Go ahead. Did you understand the explanation? Because, if you didn't or if you disagree with it I do not plan to waste another 100+ posts.

14. ### PeteIt's not rocket surgeryRegistered Senior Member

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Hi Tach,
As agreed in the proposal thread, we will go one step at a time, doing all we can to make sure we understand each other before proceeding.

Also, I notice that you edited your post twenty minutes after posting, with no explanation. Please stick to the rules we agreed on in the proposal thread.

15. ### TachBannedBanned

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The darn thing has no spell checking, in a long post it is tough weeding out the mistakes.

16. ### PeteIt's not rocket surgeryRegistered Senior Member

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Yeah, I know... I have the same habit.

17. ### TachBannedBanned

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Let's keep the debate/discussion in this forum, I am getting tired switching between the two in trying to answer you, Trippy, AN, etc. OK?

18. ### PeteIt's not rocket surgeryRegistered Senior Member

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Good idea.
Tach, I've just noticed that did a major edit to [post=2863701]post 4[/post] while I was responding to it.

We agreed not to do that:
• Posts may not be edited except:
• Within 5 minutes of posting
• For typographical errors only
Or:
• If permission is given by the other person by PM or the Discussion thread.

OK? No edits more than 5 minutes after posting. No edits except for spelling mistakes or similar.

Preview your posts before committing them.
If you want to make a significant change after posting, PM me or post to the discussion thread first.

Please, if we can't stick to the rules we agreed on, I'm worried that the debate will descend into another confused jumble of misunderstandings.

19. ### PeteIt's not rocket surgeryRegistered Senior Member

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10,167
Hi Tach,
We seem to have entered our first side issue, that of coordinate dependence.
With your permission I'd like to edit the opening post to add 1.1 - Coordinate dependence to the list and set it active, and make 1.0 - Scenario pending.

I apologize, I should have done this before responding to the Debate thread.

Also, I notice that you aren't using the post headings we agreed to use. Please do so.

Last edited: Nov 26, 2011
20. ### PeteIt's not rocket surgeryRegistered Senior Member

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There's an issue with whether T, T1, T2 are rods or points.
I'm adding this as another issue, unless you object.

21. ### TachBannedBanned

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Please add it.

22. ### PeteIt's not rocket surgeryRegistered Senior Member

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Issue 1.1 Coordinate dependence vs. coordinate independence marked resolved
Issue 1.2 Definition of T1 and T2 marked active

23. ### prometheusviva voce!Registered Senior Member

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I don't think Tach has grasped the notion of coordinate dependence. A vector is coordinate dependent (if you don't believe me write a general vector down and perform a coordinate transformation). An example of something that is coordinate invariant is the Ricci scalar which one can show is the same regardless of the coordinate system in which it is computed.