Luminiferous Aether Exists!

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience Archive' started by Mazulu, Jun 19, 2012.

  1. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    Lets see do I go with your arm waving garbage or Einsteins theory of general relativity that has rigiorous mathematical and observational evidence. His field equations have been used to make many predictions that have beens shown to be true.

    Gee thats a tough one.

    Maybe if you just proclaim a bunch of ignorant child like statements with nada to back it up you will convince me.

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  3. gravitational_aether Banned Banned

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    You understand the Milky Way has a halo, correct?

    You understand what was postulated as non-baryonic dark matter has been shown to not be anchored to matter, correct?

    You are able to understand this means the Milky Way's halo is not anchored to the matter the Milky Way consists of, correct?

    You are able to understand this means the Milky Way's halo is the state of the space the Milky Way is moving through, correct?

    You are able to understand this means the Milky Way's halo is what Einstein referred to as curved spacetime, correct?
     
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  5. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    No nothing handwaving crap, correct?

    You do understand that you don't understand; understand?
     
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  7. gravitational_aether Banned Banned

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    You are so conceptually deficient you can't understand the Milky Way's halo is evidence of what Einstein referred to as curved spacetime.
     
  8. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    No, the truth is that you are so ignorant of general science that you believe that absurd fantasy.
     
  9. gravitational_aether Banned Banned

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    Only because of your conceptual deficiencies are you unable to understand the Milky Way's halo is what Einstein referred to as curved spacetime.
     
  10. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    Try learning a little physics (just a tiny bit) and you would see how childish and absurd your idea is.
     
  11. gravitational_aether Banned Banned

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    Non-baryonic dark matter has been shown not to be anchored to matter.

    'Dark Matter Core Defies Explanation in NASA Hubble Image'
    http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2012/mar/HQ_12-068_Hubble_Dark_Core.html

    "This technique revealed the dark matter in Abell 520 had collected into a "dark core," containing far fewer galaxies than would be expected if the dark matter and galaxies were anchored together. Most of the galaxies apparently have sailed far away from the collision. "This result is a puzzle," said astronomer James Jee of the University of California in Davis, lead author of paper about the results available online in The Astrophysical Journal. "Dark matter is not behaving as predicted, and it's not obviously clear what is going on. It is difficult to explain this Hubble observation with the current theories of galaxy formation and dark matter.""

    The dark matter core does not defy explanation. The dark matter core is not a puzzle. The dark matter core is not difficult to explain. It is obviously clear what is going on.

    Non-baryonic dark matter and galaxies are not anchored together. There is no such thing as non-baryonic dark matter.

    The galaxy clusters are moving through and displacing 'space'.

    The Milky Way's halo is the state of the space connected to and neighboring the Milky Way.

    This is what Einstein referred to as curved spacetime.

    The Milky Way's halo is what Einstein referred to as curved spacetime.
     
  12. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    You have supplied more information which supports the notion that your ideas are complete and utter drivel. Well done....
     
  13. OnlyMe Valued Senior Member

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    Curved space-time is a modern interpretation of general relativity.

    It is uncertain and debatable, whether Einstein himself ever even believed in, curved space-time as a characterization of reality. While it is fairly certain that within the context of special relativity Einstein did incorporate Minkowski's concept of flat space-time, it is not as certain that, as he developed general relativity, curved space-time was an original component of how he envisioned the transition.

    General relativity as we know it today, has evolved significantly since Einstein's original presentation. It has been and remains an evolving theory of gravitation.

    So it seems that your above statement may be more an invocation of Einstein's name, as support for your ideas, than it may be a statement of fact, as to what Einstein hisself believed... It is almost always a bad idea, for the lay person and Nobel Laureate alike... It is also, almost never a good idea to use an invocation of names such as Einstein's, as support for ideas and opinions, beyond their experience. It demonstrates a weakness in the substance of ones own argument.

    Note; Einstein had no knowledge of dark matter, dark energy or most of the observational information we have today. GR is being tested today by how well it adapts to the unexpected. While it remains our best theoretical model of gravitation, it may be reaching the limits of its predictive success.
     
  14. gravitational_aether Banned Banned

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    Curved spacetime is not a modern interpretation of general realtivity.

    http://www.space.com/15524-albert-einstein.html

    "In 1916, Einstein published the general theory of relativity, which held that acceleration distorts the shape of time and space. In a nutshell, space and time are curved near a massive object — the fabric of space-time is distorted."

    Curved spacetime is a consequence of general relativity.

    'Ether and the Theory of Relativity by Albert Einstein'
    http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Extras/Einstein_ether.html

    "According to the general theory of relativity space without ether is unthinkable"

    "the state of the [ether] is at every place determined by connections with the matter and the state of the ether in neighbouring places, ... disregarding the causes which condition its state."

    The state of the aether at every place determined by connections with the matter and the state of the aether in neighboring places is the state of displacement of the aether.
     
  15. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    Your ideas on the 'aether' can only be accepted by not thinking.
     
  16. gravitational_aether Banned Banned

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    You are at least able to understand the quote you are referring to in your post is by Einstein, correct?

    'Ether and the Theory of Relativity by Albert Einstein'

    "According to the general theory of relativity space without ether is unthinkable"

    "the state of the [ether] is at every place determined by connections with the matter and the state of the ether in neighbouring places, ... disregarding the causes which condition its state."

    The state of the aether at every place determined by connections with the matter and the state of the aether in neighboring places is the state of displacement of the aether.
     
  17. OnlyMe Valued Senior Member

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    This reference is itself a modern interpretation of Einstein's intent.

    You continue to misread and misquote Einstein's 1920 University of Leyden address. The whole of the reference you extracted the above from is,
    Recapitulating, we may say that according to the general theory of relativity space is endowed with physical qualities; in this sense, therefore, there exists an ether. According to the general theory of relativity space without ether is unthinkable; for in such space there not only would be no propagation of light, but also no possibility of existence for standards of space and time (measuring-rods and clocks), nor therefore any space-time intervals in the physical sense. But this ether may not be thought of as endowed with the quality characteristic of ponderable media, as consisting of parts which may be tracked through time. The idea of motion may not be applied to it.


    In context and when including that portion in bold above all references to "the ether" can be replace by the word "space". Note: even in this address, Einstein did not use the term space-time, other than in a geometrical context.

    The paragraph of the cited address just prior to your above quote,

    Mach's idea finds its full development in the ether of the general theory of relativity. According to this theory the metrical qualities of the continuum of space-time differ in the environment of different points of space-time, and are partly conditioned by the matter existing outside of the territory under consideration. This space-time variability of the reciprocal relations of the standards of space and time, or, perhaps, the recognition of the fact that "empty space" in its physical relation is neither homogeneous nor isotropic, compelling us to describe its state by ten functions (the gravitation potentials g_(mn)), has, I think, finally disposed of the view that space is physically empty. But therewith the conception of the ether has again acquired an intelligible content, although this content differs widely from that of the ether of the mechanical undulatory theory of light. The ether of the general theory of relativity is a medium which is itself devoid of all mechanical and kinematical qualities, but helps to determine mechanical (and electromagnetic) events.


    The portion in bold once again suggests that at the time the concept of space-time was to Einstein a geometric description of space and time. The further unification and concept of a physically unified space-time is a modern interpretation.

    Then later, in that portion in red and bold, Einstein asserts that this ether of general relativity has no independently observable parts or kinematical qualities (independent motion), something which was later discarded with the frame-dragging effect, which is supported by the GP-B experiment... Which does suggest that space itself, the ether Einstein was referring to, does have some at least weakly defined kinetic interaction with matter.., an independently defined motion. As I said, general relativity has been and continues to be an evolving theory of gravitation.

    Edit to add: The above seems to be a rephrasing of the following,
    What is fundamentally new in the ether of the general theory of relativity as opposed to the ether of Lorentz consists in this, that the state of the former is at every place determined by connections with the matter and the stateof the ether in neighbouring places, which are amenable to law in the form of differential equations; whereas the state of the Lorentzian ether in the absence of electromagnetic fields is conditioned by nothing outside itself, and is everywhere the same.

    Replacing Einstein's reference above to the ether of general relativity with "space" paints a little different picture.​

    Here lies the seeds of a kinetic character of space/space-time. A crack in the door which at the time had not been fully explored and realized.


    Context is always important. And always of more importance when reading historical accounts, through the rose colored glasses of what we know today that was unknown in the past.

    There are aspects of general relativity and even quantum mechanics that could be discussed, which have similarities to some of the discussion in this thread. It does not seem to me that beginning such discussion would be of any value, since you seem so ridgely fixed the your own misguided interpretations.

    Disclaimer: Let it be known that much of this post are the product of my own "misguided" interpretations, and any liberties of interpretation, should not be automatically assumed the mainstream view. As I have mentioned to some extent there remains among historians some debate..!
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2012
  18. OnlyMe Valued Senior Member

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    This is likely a case of the fact that if you tell yourself something long enough, you come to beleive it, true or not. A pitfall we must all remain aware of as we pursue the theories of the past and present, into the future.
     
  19. gravitational_aether Banned Banned

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    The ether of the time was an absolutely stationary space. What Einstein was referring to as the 'mechanical' property of the ether was its immobility. Einstein removed from the ether its immobility. Meaning, the ether of relativity is displaced by the objects which exist in it.

    'Ether and the Theory of Relativity by Albert Einstein'
    http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Extras/Einstein_ether.html

    "Think of waves on the surface of water. Here we can describe two entirely different things. Either we may observe how the undulatory surface forming the boundary between water and air alters in the course of time; or else-with the help of small floats, for instance - we can observe how the position of the separate particles of water alters in the course of time. If the existence of such floats for tracking the motion of the particles of a fluid were a fundamental impossibility in physics - if, in fact nothing else whatever were observable than the shape of the space occupied by the water as it varies in time, we should have no ground for the assumption that water consists of movable particles. But all the same we could characterise it as a medium."

    The aether is a medium which is displaced by the particles of matter which exist in it.

    'Ether and the Theory of Relativity by Albert Einstein'
    http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Extras/Einstein_ether.html

    "According to the general theory of relativity space without ether is unthinkable"

    "the state of the [ether] is at every place determined by connections with the matter and the state of the ether in neighbouring places, ... disregarding the causes which condition its state."

    The physical state of the aether at every place determined by its physical connections with the matter and the physical state of the aether in neighboring places is the state of displacement of the aether.
     
  20. gravitational_aether Banned Banned

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    356
    Which is exactly what you are doing by not allowing yourself to understand Einstein is referring to the physical state of the aether in the following.

    'Ether and the Theory of Relativity by Albert Einstein'
    http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Extras/Einstein_ether.html

    "According to the general theory of relativity space without ether is unthinkable"

    "the state of the [ether] is at every place determined by connections with the matter and the state of the ether in neighbouring places, ... disregarding the causes which condition its state."

    The physical state of the aether at every place determined by its physical connections with the matter and the physical state of the aether in neighboring places is the state of displacement of the aether.
     
  21. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    I am able to understand that YOUR ideas are completely devoid of logic, mathematics, any semblence of reason and are based on a child like misunderstanding of physics.

    You are posting the same crap that you did before you were banned last time. Same crap over and over - and it is no more believable than the last time.

    Plainly put - it is a stupid nonsensical idea.
     
  22. gravitational_aether Banned Banned

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    Then I am sure you can explain to us why there is an offset between the light lensing through the space neighboring galaxy clusters and the galaxy clusters themselves, why there is a 'core' of mass 'left behind' after galaxy clusters collide, and what occurs physically in nature in a double slit experiment.

    All of which are easily and correctly explained by understanding aether has mass, aether physically occupies three dimensional space and aether is displaced by matter.
     
  23. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    It all can be easily and incorrectly explained by suspending all rational thought and making up goof crap to substitute for your complete and utter lack of any vague understanding of physics.
     

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