Magic.

Discussion in 'Free Thoughts' started by TheFrogger, May 29, 2018.

  1. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 69 years old Valued Senior Member

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    Thoughts do not have existence

    Chemical and electrical processes yes
    Thoughts no

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  3. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    Are you under the impression that we can't see mental processes?
     
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  5. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    I didn't say they were the same process. I said they were both physical processes. Moving water can dislodge a stone which rolls down a hill and blocks moving water. It's all physical.
     
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  7. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Um. Magic is the topic.
     
  8. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Sure they do. They exist the same way text on a page exists, and the same way a computer program exists.
     
  9. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    The question is whether "magic" is some sort of beyond-reality voodoo or just fooling the brain into thinking it is.
     
  10. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    So you're saying the thought of your wife and the chemical process associated with it aren't the same thing?
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2018
  11. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    So that thought or idea---that thoughts don't have existence---doesn't exist? How can we discuss it then and share it? How can it be true or false? It certainly exists in some sense. Information exists doesn't it?
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2018
  12. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    "Magick is the Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will. — Aleister Crowley

    Magick is the art of causing changes in consciousness in conformity with the Will “– Dion Fortune

    We will confine ourselves to an extension of a well-known definition by Aleister Crowley and state that, “Magic is the Science and Art of causing Change, on a material as well as a spiritual level, to occur in conformity with Will by altered states of consciousness. — Frater U.: D.:, Secrets of Western Sex Magic

    A magical act may be defined as causing reality to conform to will. — Phil Hine, “Undoing Yourself with Chaos Magic,” Rebels and Devils

    Magick is just the art of changing the focus of consciousness at will. — Robert Anton Wilson, The Earth Will Shake

    Sorcery: the systematic cultivation of enhanced consciousness or non-ordinary awareness & its deployment in the world of deeds & objects to bring about desired results. — Hakim Bey, T.A.Z.

    Real magick is not merely an assortment of skills and techniques. It’s more like an open minded attitude, a blend of interest and dedication, which allows each honest mage to observe, to learn, to adapt, and to invent unique ways of changing identity and reality from within. — Jan Fries, Visual Magick

    Magic is a set of techniques and approaches which can be used to extend the limits of Achievable Reality. Our sense of Achievable Reality is the limitations which we believe bind us into a narrow range of actions and successes – what we believe to be possible for us at any one time. In this context, the purpose of magic is to simultaneously explore those boundaries and attempt to push them back – to widen the ‘sphere’ of possible action. — Phil Hine, Condensed Chaos

    Magic is the Highest, most Absolute, and most Divine Knowledge of Natural Philosophy, advanced in its works and wonderful operations by a right understanding of the inward and occult virtue of things; so that true Agents being applied to proper Patients, strange and admirable effects will thereby be produced. Whence magicians are profound and diligent searchers into Nature; they, because of their skill, know how to anticipate an effect, the which to the vulgar shall seem to be a miracle. — The Goetia of the Lemegeton of King Solomon.

    Courage is the criterion of belief. To back one horse and fancy another means willing one thing and believing another. Magic (faith) is simply a means of unifying Desire and Belief. The subconscious mind is employed to create your belief and unite it to a real desire. — Austin Osman Spare, Two Tracts on Cartomancy

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    Causing change by directing energy with one’s will. — Kerr Cuhulain, Full Contact Magick

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    Everything works by magick; science represents a small domain of magick where coincidences have a relatively high probability of occurrence. Half of the skills in magick consist of identifying probabilities worth enhancing… Magick will not free itself from occultism until we have strangled the last astrologer with the guts of the last spiritual master. — Peter Carroll, PsyberMagick: Advanced Ideas in Chaos Magick

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    "

    http://www.spiralnature.com/magick/what-is-magick/
     
  13. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    First we need to identify what we are observing, and then determine the source.

    Someone suggested card tricks. We agree that is not magic.
    So what is? I mean, what phenomena are we analyzing? Ghosts? Faeries? shape-shifters?
     
  14. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    Who actually does the "magic" MR is talking about? Not Penn and Teller, they're honest.
     
  15. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Magic shows are all over. They use clever illusions to entertain people.

    There is no such thing as "beyond-reality voodoo" or whatnot.
     
  16. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    Whoa! When did people start thinking that a sideshow act involved supernatural powers?
     
  17. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 69 years old Valued Senior Member

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    Can see processes
    Cannot deduce from looking at the process what the mental image is

    Send me 10 of your best thoughts
    Make sure to use lots of bubble wrap so they don't get damaged
    Oh and add 10 pounds of information

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  18. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 69 years old Valued Senior Member

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    Plus the rest of the post

    Pure unadulterated con artist crap

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  19. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    I'll send you the 1 million pages of Wikipedia when I find the time.
     
  20. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 69 years old Valued Senior Member

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    Arrrh so you have a million pages (physical pages) running around within your brain

    No need send a million - send 10 BUT please send photos of the operation used to extract them

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  21. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 69 years old Valued Senior Member

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    The same day they bought snake oil to rub on the orifice aliens had just probed

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  22. TheFrogger Valued Senior Member

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    Saint Nicholas was Santa. Incidentally how many of you can remember when they discovered Santa wasn't real?



    I contend magic isn't real and just a trick designed to fool the observer, and here's why...

    When David Copperfield walked through the Great Wall of China there was a large sheet blocking our view of him, showing only a silhouette. Should be able to perform real magic he would simply WALK through the wall unaided.



    All magic is a trick. It does not exist (IMO.)
     
  23. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    The thought of my wife is a chemical process. Your comment was about causation. I'm saying that one chemical process is the causation of another chemical process.
     

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