Mask-Burning: The Ethics of Freedom

user error

rolling out the big guns huh

mask mandates have occurred as infection rates have got to the tipping point of total collapse of society
infection rates & death rates will continue to increase after mask mandates because the virus takes a week or 2 to kill at the current spread rate.
AND the infection testing happens AFTER the mass spread peaking level

simple logic

your logic =
these-12-graphs-show-2nd amendment rights -laws -do-nothing-to-stop-mass shootings

 

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All those graphs show months between mask mandates and giant spikes in Covid cases, not weeks.

 

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It is an interesting question but alas many do not understand the term freedom especially with regards to freedom of the individual with in a collective. Surely there is a responsibility to the welfare of oneself but there is also a responsibility to the welfare of the collective. That collective responsibility includes family ( children ).

Is it ethical to presume to know something when we don't and can not possibly know or is it plain stupidity born of ignorance and fear?

The example of protecting children has always fallen on the parents AND the collective especially when the threat is present but other wise as yet un-quantified.
There is so much we do not know about this virus and even now after 12 months we are just starting to glimpse the ramifications of virus survivor-ship.
Children and young people ARE being seriously impacted.
Deaths of babies is only now started to be recorded as Covid related. ( babies are often not tested for infection of covid)
Most of the folly of these types of discussion is due to the lack or credible data most often caused by a lack or testing, complacency, ignorance and jumping to premature conclusions.
Example: If testing is not comprehensive and does not include those that are deceased then what does that tell us about the validity of our conclusions? Even the tests used have serious concerns and corpses are not often tested etc.

Is it ethical to reach conclusions when there is no real basis for doing so?
Freedom:
Freedom in absolute terms is insanity, chaos, etc.
Every day we allow restrictions on our freedom by using self restraint, discipline and collective regulation. We as an individual and so too the collective would perish if we did not do so.

Mask wearing has proven invaluable to the containment of this virus when utilized properly, thoroughly, in conjunction with adequate social distancing and it could be argued to be unethical for the Government of the day to not impose it upon it's citizens for the collective and individual good.

After all that is what leadership is all about - the balance between individual and collective good. When people look towards leadership they do so knowing full well that they are trading their own self- leadership for leadership that may be better qualified. They are deliberately allowing oppression by that leadership for their individual and collective welfare because there are some things that can not be achieved individually except as a member of a team or collective.

Beating this virus is one of those things unless you wish as an individual to spend the rest of your life living as oppressed in a seriously contagious environment, always wondering when you may pick up the disease and transmit it unknowingly to your children and the rest of your family and friends and suffer long term complications accordingly.

Covid-19 is considerably more oppressive than wearing a mask to ultimately survive the pandemic free of infection.

"It is not the government that forced me to stay at home for 9 months and wear a mask etc. if I left home, it was the prevalence of the virus in the community that did that"

 

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if you wish to discuss statistics
then post some scientific statistics along side the government public mandate showing the date

gaming the subject from the side lines for rhetoric is not what i am interested in engaging with

 

lower brain human behaviors of the pack animal seeking to follow the pack to feel a brain chemical response like a junky getting a hit of crack

American culture of the puritan frontiers man & woman
have no community moral values
it is purely individualist self motivating as a survivalist concept

other peoples children are a liability & cost that they can do without

same/same as above
the priority of the individual above the group moral values
profit before public health
user pays public health etc etc
no change in core moral values here
just a difference in applied moral absolutes in privilege
as the privilege class gains height it becomes self sustaining in moral concepts
then applying those moral concepts to working class becomes a deliberately falsely created concept of independence
this s then sold off as social engineering
to define that
with wealth comes a lack of freedom
to which the poor are inherently gifted by birth right of being privileged to own freedom from wealth

it is as evil as core nazi-ism in its real driving morals and ethics
cult brain washing stuff

class is everything in the usa
financial
racial
provincial
etc etc

 

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If you were intending to address what you quoted, you completely failed. And if you didn't, why the need to quote that as a pretense?

If you can't understand the data already provided, nothing's likely to penetrate.

 

sorry my mistake i missed your posted link

im looking at it now
it appears to reference twitter as its source
the heading suggest bias

does it show how long it takes to make mask regulations into law ?

https://thefederalist.com/2020/10/29/these-12-graphs-show-mask-mandates-do-nothing-to-stop-covid/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Federalist_(website)
The Federalist is an American conservative online magazine and podcast that covers politics, policy, culture, and religion, and publishes a newsletter.[1][2][3][4] The site was co-founded by Ben Domenech and Sean Davis and launched in September 2013.[4]

During the COVID-19 pandemic, The Federalist published many pieces that contained false information or pseudoscience that was contrary to the recommendations of public health experts and authorities.[5] While ballots were being counted in the 2020 United States presidential election, The Federalist made false claims that there had been large-scale election fraud.[6][7]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Federalist_(website)#COVID-19_pandemic_misinformation

The Federalist was subsequently temporarily suspended from Twitter for promoting fringe ideas that contradicted public health experts and were harmful to public health.[30] Reddit also removed links to The Federalist article on its platform.[32]


graph source is
source our world in data twitter @yinonw

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?

what source is this data from ?

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different graph also self references a twitter handle under what looks like a made up name
covid tracking project | twitter @yinonw

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the federalist web site looks like 100% propaganda
0% science credibility
the obvious massive political bias defines its narrative to be content for political purpose
which is contrary to scientific data
the fact that they made up all their own graphs, then self referenced them via a twitter handle is real slap stick level stuff

totally fake

 

^^Genetic fallacies abound.

 

the thread genre is ethics morality & justice
and the thread subject is a human culture psychological sexualised gender construct

so the obvious content is human behavior models as group functions
normative etc
masks being worn or not worn is not the subject
the subject is the act of sexualisation of the narrative
via symbolic acts of social anarchy
mask burning
and the culture that defines and exists in

political extremism, as the federalist is
has no basic relative value

what is ironic is they have made such an obvious fake set of scientific data

and here i was thinking you had posted something scientific for me to look at
lol

so as said before(literally)
no data
no links
no science

if you find any
please post it. i would be most interested in the human behaviors

 

Duty to Warn (@duty2warn) describes itself as, "An association of mental health professionals warning Trump is psychologically unfit", and that tells us something about the politics of their messaging, to be certain. Still, that's one of the funny-notfunny things about politics; they're not wrong when they describe a "Bonfire of insanity"↱, reminding:

In March, Idaho parents encouraging kids to burn masks on the Capitol steps. Now, hospitals in crisis mode rationing care.​

And, yes, we've already seen the video, back in March↑.
____________________

Notes:

@duty2warn. "Bonfire of insanity. In March, Idaho parents encouraging kids to burn masks on the Capitol steps. Now, hospitals in crisis mode rationing care." Twitter. 8 September 2021. Twitter.com. 8 September 2021. https://bit.ly/3nfkh71

 

So why's the same thing happening in Hawaii?

Hawaii, Idaho Hospitals Prepare To Ration Care Amid COVID-19 Surge
Mounting coronavirus cases are straining hospitals and causing the states to take drastic measures.
​

 

The takeover of book publishing by capitalist investors, decades ago, made it perfectly clear who does the censoring and why, who burns the books and why.
The modern publisher or retailer does not even maintain backlists and midlists - Dr Seuss books are unusual in having remained in print as long as they have. He's certainly been censored by somehow going "out of print" less than most authors - one can buy almost any book he ever wrote in near-new condition.

Does not illustrate the relation between actually wearing a mask and changes in the frequency of catching or spreading the virus. For that, there is quite a bit of research - with the conclusion that even the average homemade masks work fine and are valuable in maintaining quality of life. They stop the aerosol, thereby slowing the spread - and reducing the infection load even among those who still get sick.

Not a mystery - if people could be depended on to mask up when requested for a few weeks once in while, which is all we would have needed to step on this thing originally, no mandate would even be considered these days.

When people aren't masking and aren't vaccinating and aren't taking ordinary precautions, cases go up - and so does the demand for mandates, in self-defense.
Defending the less powerful citizens against those who would harm them is one of the basic responsibilities of government. It also reduces vigilante violence, which those who lose children and loved ones to careless and willfully stupid neighbors may be prone to.

When unvaccinated people aren't masking in a country with substandard medical care (like the US) - so that detect and trace and quarantine has no chance and the virus remains out of control and some especially vulnerable fractions of the population or economy or both face the consequences of plague in their time (fast food outlets, crowded workplaces, live entertainment businesses, popular bars, tourist facilities, nursing homes, schools, dentists and opthalmologists and podiatrists and the like) - it's mandates and cross your fingers, or capitulation.

btw: Denmark is enjoying freedom and near-normality these days, having stepped on the plague virus as recommended by epidemiologists and researchers and their famous "death panel" governmental agencies a year and a half ago. If you compare their stats with the US, especially the "excess death by county" numbers and some others that the US still collects and records with acceptable reliability in the Reagan Era, the US has not only surpassed their mortality stats but the externalized cost of dealing with this plague - the bill, in money, that the US is paying and will pay for years if not decades, is startling even to the cynical left. The personal cost, the trauma, is larger yet. (Loss of faith in one's fellow citizens is a serious injury, btw - it's expensive and boring to live among people one cannot trust, and the effect on things like GDP and lifespan is visible.)

Denmark currently has about 30 people in critical care, ventilators and the like. That's the entire country. The nurses and doctors in Denmark are not burning out by the thousands - if a Danish kid breaks their collarbone the doc who sets it will not be running on three hours of sleep with a half dozen patient deaths the previous night, the nurse will not have had to endure name-calling and public abuse while coming in to work an hour ago, and the kid will not have had to sit in the car or ambulance and endure being driven an extra five miles to a hospital that could handle that kind of sub-lethal trauma

So what did Denmark do? It sounds as though it would be a good idea, or strategy, for those who cherish freedom and value family ties or the like.

bbtw: As you probably understand via your familiarity with CRT, Denmark does not have the racial bigotry that underlies much of the US population's belligerent failure to care for the neighbors or their children, so there's that. (Remember back a couple years, when Trump was just about to sign on and promote the CDC recommendations among his supporters, then changed his mind literally overnight, apparently, when informed that the plague was killing black and brown people disproportionately. That change seems to have cost the US possibly as much as a half million deaths. The cripplings are still coming in - won't be known for decades. No sign of birth defects or similar inheritances. Yet. But plenty of what the Brits call "knock-on" damages - losses of preventive medicine, nurses and docs suffering from battle fatigue, ER glitches and shortages, children's loss of parents and grandparents). The baseball players who have had Covid seem to show long term effects not visible in medical stats - the worry is long term brain damage, something else the citizens of Denmark will suffer from less than the US.

Not because the white kids burned their masks at the direction of poorly informed parents.
Idaho should have a low rate of transmission, compared with Hawaii. Does it?

 

Hmmm...

 

Answer here: https://www.latimes.com/world-natio...urge-pummels-hawaii-and-its-native-population

Low vaccine take-up among one segment of the population viz. the native islanders, who are historically suspicious of government advice.

If you have a subset of the population that lives close together and is not vaccinated, you can get surges within that group that can fill up the hospitals, in a way that would not happen if the same number of unvaccinated people were thinly spread throughout a largely vaccinated population. That seems to be what is happening.

 

I’d argue it’s mostly due to population density. Most Hawaiians live on the island of o’ahu which has a population density of over 1600 people per a square mile. Small errors are magnified with that kind of density. To compare Idaho has a population density of like 22 people per a square mile.

 

Is that density greater than in major US cities?

 

Oh god no. Chicago is over 11k I think New York City is 27k

Honolulu is 5thousand and something.

 

That's what I would have expected. So how can density account for the surge in Hawaii, if we are not seeing a greater surge in these cities?

 

The major cities got hit early. So your having natural immunity helping cut down numbers. Also they never got quite so lax as Hawaii.

there also dumb luck to take into account to.