"Denialists"? You and your friend CC are the king and queen of 'denialists'. You deny the reality of the entire physical universe and insist that physical objects are just "mental constructs" that only exist within disembodied spiritual "minds" (which for some unknown reason supposedly aren't constructs). http://sciforums.com/threads/do-we-see-reality-as-it-is.152671/ OK, let's all agree that ufos are parts of the content of ufo believers' mental constructs. Just like God and Jesus Christ are integral parts of Christians' mental constructs. I don't think that any of your opponents would disagree with that. What they are saying is that real objective extraterrestrial spaceships and real objective alien visitors probably aren't actually appearing in Earth's physical sky. Why are you so opposed to their view, when you seemingly agree with it? How can you believe that ufos possibly possess independent existence out there in the physical world, when you are adamant that the physical world has no reality and is just an illusion? What is it that you are trying to do, MR? What do you want to accomplish?
That's what I said you were arguing. If they're not technologically advanced, then they can't very well be flying in space and visiting earth, right? You denied ever arguing it, and now you are saying that is what Paddoboy correctly says you were arguing. So no, it's not proof I misunderstand a thing. I just supported it. Oh wait, no I didn't! Hmmmm...Or did I? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Your enlisting others to support your claim that you aren't denying the very things you argued is laughable. Why don't you ask them whether a technologically unadvanced alien species is capable of space travel. I'm sure they can enlighten you regarding the subtleties of such basic syllogisms. I have no interest in debating with someone who appears to be arguing for a position on the one hand, but ends up abandoning it with ambivalent restatements of "not likely" and "I don't know." I also don't take kindly to repeated insults of me being too dumb to understand you. Maybe you should reconsider the claim that it is me who is showing disrespect here. Fascinating...Yawn... It's not my issue. Like I said, I never have this problem with anybody else except you. It's the same old bullshit every time. So like I said, don't waste my time here with vagaries and contradictions.
I already told you I believe other minds are behind the construct, just like our own mind is. Why wouldn't alien intelligence be an example of minds tampering with the construct for some reason? Makes perfect sense to me. Maybe they are showing us the inherent limitations of the construct itself to represent all of reality. Now instead of trollishly dragging in crap from other threads, why don't you respond to my actual post that ufo denialists ignore specific examples of sightings I post here. Case in point: I listed 4 compelling accounts in posts #238 and #239. What is your explanation for these?
You did not say that was what I was arguing - you have said that I have argued that technologically advanced life is probable. Do you still not see the difference??? Right, let's go over this for you, shall we... Post #205: me... Most of us here probably concur that alien life is not only possible but probable even within our galaxy. Post #206: you... So you claim there are higher civilizations out there ("Most of us here probably concur that alien life is not only possible but probable even within our galaxy") ... Even here you have clearly misunderstood / misinterpreted what I had said... my sentence, which you kindly repeated, does not mean that I "claim there are higher civilizations out there". I point this out to you in Post #209. Post #209: me... I do not claim there is, I claim there probably is alien life. There is a difference. I make no claims as to the existence of "high civilizations" You then repeat your misunderstanding in Post #210: "Right..so you say there is probably alien life out here, and then cite the argument from the article stating the reason why we don't detect it is because there is no alien life out there." in direct response to the bolded sentence above. I.e. you have simply not bothered to, or are incapable of, understanding the two bolded sentences above. Paddoboy also highlights your misunderstanding in Post #211: "?? I see him plainly saying that Alien life exists most probably, but that he doubts it being technologically advanced." The fact that he also infers from my comment more than is there (I don't doubt it is technologically advanced... I am agnostic on the matter) is irrelevant to your own misunderstanding. I then respond to you in Post #234: The article is not about alien life but about sufficiently advanced alien life. This highlights that you have also misunderstood what the article you posted is actually about - sufficiently advanced alien life, not just alien life in general. No, you clearly didn't. I'm not enlisting anyone - I am merely using the words they have already posted, and their apparent ability to understand what I write (even if there may be some slight uncorrected inferences that are questionable). Again you hold me responsible for your shortcomings. If you think I have insulted you rather than, say, just pointed out your misunderstanding and questioned what might be behind that, then feel free to report me, MR. With regard your demonstrable misunderstandings, either you are incapable of understanding, or you are misunderstanding deliberately. Your choice, MR. Most people possibly ignore you making shit up or misinterpreting what they say. I choose not to ignore it. There are no contradictions in what I have said. If you genuinely think so then point them out. But all you're doing is whining and wriggling when someone has called you out on your misinterpretation / misunderstanding of what they have said. And you're not doing yourself any favours.
Then why the fuck are you arguing about alien life, as in bacteria I guess, existing in the context of a discussion and article about the probable existence of advanced alien life? Why are you arguing at all? Everybody agrees there's very likely (probably?) life out there, so that's an irrelevant point here. If you are making no claims about the existence of advanced alien life, as in "I make no claims as to the existence of 'higher civilizations'", then move on. There's nothing to argue about here, because having nothing to assert about the likelihood of advanced life out there doesn't do anything to lessen the prospect of ufos being alien lifeforms. Again, it's just another waste of time, consumed with parsing out the fine distinctions between life, aliens, alien life, advanced life, and advanced life that are aliens. At this point, and in light of the article's own points, why is it that you refuse to commit on the issue of advanced alien life? Remember, the Fermi paradox is that advanced alien life IS likely, so where are they? And if it is so undecided for you, why are all the sightings of aerial craft in the sky that are beyond human technology NOT evidence of such? Oh and btw, it appears even Paddoboy misunderstood you when he claimed: "?? I see him plainly saying that Alien life exists most probably, but that he doubts it being technologically advanced." How is making no claims about advanced life or higher civilizations making a claim that there probably AREN'T any higher civilizations? Quoth you: "(I don't doubt it is technologically advanced... I am agnostic on the matter)".
That's easy to answer. MR is trying to convince everyone else that he is a logical, reasoned, sane human being with logical, real, sane beliefs, that he has scrupulously investigated, and that is supported by the most flimsy of evidence, which he sees as convincing, that ghosts, goblins, Bigfoot, Alien craft in our skies, are all real and the rest of the world are spouting bullshit and on denial of these "real"claims and that all science is total bullshit..Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! I know what I think of such irrational behaviour. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Rest of the world? You mean the 77% of Americans who believe aliens have visited earth? No, that's not bullshit at all. "According to a National Geographic survey, 77 percent of all Americans "believe there are signs that aliens have visited Earth", and according to a recent Harris poll only 68 percent of all Americans believe that Jesus is God or the Son of God. That means that the number of Americans that believe that UFOs have visited us is now greater than the number of Americans that believe what the Bible has to say about Jesus Christ."===http://www.sott.net/article/271567-...rth-than-believe-that-Jesus-is-the-Son-of-God Or how about this poll: "Nearly 50 years since an alleged UFO was sighted at Roswell, New Mexico, a new CNN/Time poll released Sunday shows that 80 percent of Americans think the government is hiding knowledge of the existence of extraterrestrial life forms. While nearly three-quarters of the 1,024 adults questioned for the poll said they had never seen or known anyone who saw a UFO, 54 percent believe intelligent life exists outside Earth. Sixty-four percent of the respondents said that aliens have contacted humans, half said they've abducted humans, and 37 percent said they have contacted the U.S. government. The poll has a margin of error of plus or minus 3 percentage points."====http://www.ufoevidence.org/topics/publicopinionpolls.htm
America is not the world...surprise!! Secondly, polls are polls are polls and only ever survey a very small population size...Thirdly the framing of the question says a lot. And factually fourthly if people were educated in science, and told of the vast array of possibilities as to what UFO's probably are, they may not be so inclined to answer any run of the mill poll with yes....Fifthly most people in reality see UFO's and Aliens and there medical experiments as a bit of a joke. In essence then.....
Polls say 80% believe the govt is hiding knowledge of ET's. Where's your poll saying most people think ET's are a joke?
5 Compelling Reasons to Believe in UFOs http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/chasing-ufos/articles/five-good-reasons-to-believe-in-ufos/ “The hassle over the word 'proof' boils down to one question: What constitutes proof?” Edward J. Ruppelt, who headed the U.S Air Force’s secret investigation of UFOs in the early 1950s, once wrote. “Does a UFO have to land at the River Entrance to the Pentagon, near the Joint Chiefs of Staff offices? Or is it proof when a ground radar station detects a UFO, sends a jet to intercept it, the jet pilot sees it, and locks on with his radar, only to have the UFO streak away at a phenomenal speed? Is it proof when a jet pilot fires at a UFO and sticks to his story even under the threat of court-martial? Does this constitute proof?”
I don't have a poll, and I have already expressed my thoughts on polls among other facts you ignore. And once again, for the umpteenth time, your understanding ability leaves a lot to be desired, or is it simply this craving of yours to convince people of the existence of all that is nonsensical, that has you taking stuff purposely out of context. In essence I did not comment on anyone thinking that ET's were a joke. Visitations without announcements? yes, appearing to impressionable gullible people in the middle of nowhere? yes, fuzzy wuzzy blurry photos, yes.
You under value yourself MR.....There are many more reasons and evidence to believe in UFO's. They are quite factual.
And yet you say: "Fifthly most people in reality see UFO's and Aliens and there medical experiments as a bit of a joke."
Five Reasons Why Ufos Are Not Extraterrestrial Machines "(1) Unexplained close encounters are far more numerous than required for any physical survey of the earth; (2) The humanoid body structure of the alleged 'aliens' is not likely to have originated on another planet and is not biologically adapted to space travel; (3) The reported behavior in thousands of abduction reports contradicts the hypothesis of genetic or scientific experimentation on humans by an advanced race; (4) The extension of the phenomenon throughout recorded history demonstrates that UFOs are not a contemporary phenomenon; and (5) The apparent ability of UFOs to manipulate space and time suggests radically different and richer alternatives." http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf073/sf073g16.htm
There you go again, being so deliberately obtuse. Note carefully...UFO's and Aliens not just UFO's Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Let me dumb it down some more for you. Most people accept that there are UFO's, including your's truly.....Most people do not readily and automatically and stupidly immediatley jump to the conclusions they are of Alien origins. They are simply UFO's Anyway bye for now MR. As usual your games to avoid the obvious and your fanaticism to convince the world of your own questionably beliefs continues. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Right, if I said most people view dogs and cats as a joke, but then said dogs are factual, that would be a contradiction, no?
http://www.sillybeliefs.com/aliens.html Flying saucers or UFOs, if you're an optimist, are full of advanced aliens waiting to welcome us into a galactic federation of space-faring beings and assist us with our problems. If you're a pessimist they're full of aliens bent on our domination or extinction. Devious aliens that are busy experimenting on us and our cattle, covertly of course, until the time comes to reveal their intent. By some accounts they are even in league with our governments who are trading our liberty for alien technology. Where do you think microwave ovens came from? And we'relucky in New Zealand that we now have our very own UFO and alien contact support group in the form of UFOCUS NZ, a group we can turn to for advice. What to believe? Friendly aliens or malevolent ones? Of course we first need to take step a back and ask whether there are any aliens at all, friendly or malevolent? Before we can decide what their intention might be, we have do decide if they even exist.
So the article is saying they aren't ET vessels or drones. Then what the hell are they? Interdimensional craft? Nevermind. I checked that article and that is a direct quote from Jacques Vallee, reknowned ufo researcher and proponent of the theory that ufos are manifestations of higher dimensional beings. So yeah, I can go with that, at least until we contact one of these beings and find out just exactly where they come from. I DO find it amusing that you of all people would be proposing the interdimensional theory over the ET theory though. lol!
It's not sufficient to identify an object as simply unknown. You have identified nothing, just as saying the thing inside the box is a thing inside the box. With science and exploration we are in the business of identifying unknown objects, not labeling them as such and then forgetting about them.
