# Maths to explain time.

Discussion in 'Alternative Theories' started by amber, Feb 1, 2018.

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1. ### DaveC426913Valued Senior Member

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Your own time is always 1 second per second. It's everybody else's time that's dilated.

Unable to parse that sentence. The words ... don't go together.

3. ### birchValued Senior Member

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has there been any study whether those who live up high in the mountains age slower than those at sea level?

if i'm viewing riders on a roller coaster from the ground, time is not different for either person. the only change would be internal such as their experience of weightlessness and g-forces which would have some affect on their internal clock versus mine but absolute time would still be the same. if the ride takes 4 minutes; it's four minutes for them, just like it is for the viewer from the ground.

the coaster itself and the cart that is moving along the track is not experiencing time dilation. it's fixed and it's not relative. the coaster is not adjusting it's speed in relation to the rider's experience of time. there is no time dilation for the viewer either. the only time dilation was for those on the coaster.

Last edited: Feb 2, 2018

5. ### nebel

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Life might have started in a n0-sun environment with another energy gradient. now driven by mostly stored solar energy, aka food, fuel. unskilled labor? the fecundity of the uneducated.
(sorry to hijack a thread on time), would have liked a less destructive outcome. flight of fancy without formulae.

7. ### Michael 345New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldlValued Senior Member

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Correct but change is tiny tiny tiny weeney and not noticeable in normal everyday circumstances

As I scrolled back I noticed many others had explained the situation

8. ### Michael 345New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldlValued Senior Member

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Got itβ

I blame lack of coffee

9. ### birchValued Senior Member

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yes, but the op was trying to say was that the rate of entropy is variable and that is how we measure time. many things affect that rate of change or change, not just gravity, speed or mass.

10. ### nebel

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This has been irrefutably demonstrated using aircraft and accurate clock
that is why Einstein liked sailing, he wanted to look younger than his age. (hyperbole) he earlier imagined to ride a wave of light, like a photon, never aging, looking out and seeing us stuck in time. or?
how about explaining amber's corrected equations?

P.S.I have a naive question, If speed does slow time (or motion through it,) , but less gravity speeds it up (max gravity stops time) , and gravity falls at /d^2 from the surface, how come the greater altitude does not cancel the effects?

Last edited: Feb 2, 2018
11. ### Xelasnave.1947Valued Senior Member

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Me?
I have no idea.
They seem real nice.
Can you show the effects are not cancelled or are cancelled.
You know the place to look into all this is surrounding GPS.
Besides telling you where you are it can tell you where you are not...
Alex

12. ### Michael 345New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldlValued Senior Member

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Will give more details later

If you can obtain The Invention of Time and Space by Patrice F. Dassonville

explains in great detail time and space

The formula in the original post and reference to Physics seems to indicate only such stuff as gravity etc

If you're posting about stuff rotting and decaying as the changes with entropy you don't need formula

Post more later

13. ### nebel

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thank you for the suggestion. apparently the speeding up of time with heights effect at the satellites altitude is less than the decrease of time with speed. but there is a cancelling altitude for every velocity and
Satellites operate in zero gravity so, why would there be time dilation because of it? . Is gravity an absolute? even if "centrifugal forces" acceleration of a stable orbit cancels it?

[QUOTE="amber, post: 3501704, member: 287441" ]---time was absolute.[/QUOTE]

Last edited: Feb 2, 2018
14. ### birchValued Senior Member

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it would depend on what clock you are using as a benchmark to determine who would be experiencing time dilation given the variables. the caesium clock based on radioactive decay etc.

15. ### Michael 345New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldlValued Senior Member

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I put this little ("check list"?) together. It by no means explains the effects just shows how they act

Top of tall building

Top of tall building (less gravity)
tiny - negative
= time faster
NOT fast enough to catch up with the speed effect
TOP moving into the future

Top of tall building (move faster)
tiny ++ positive
= time slower
NOT slow enough to fall back or below the gravity effect
TOP slipping into the past

On balance - due to speed - moving into future

Basement of tall building

Basement of tall building (more gravity) tiny ++ positive
= time slower
NOT slow enough to fall back or below the gravity effect
BASEMENT slipping into the past

Basement of tall building (move slower) tiny - negative
= time faster
NOT fast enough to catch up with the speed effect
BASEMENT moving into the future

On balance - due to speed - slipping into the past

Totality balance of the building - TOP and BASEMENT remain in NOW

Although it has been says living in the basement DOES let you age mini minor micro slower

Appreciate if any defects in the above can be pointed out for correction

I hope the information is correct - I'm thinking more I have not got the information laid out correctly

16. ### Xelasnave.1947Valued Senior Member

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I dont think they opperate in zero gravity.
You may be thinking about weightlessnes a condition that depends in part upon gravity.
I dont know.
I am not sure you should look at it that way.
Alex

17. ### exchemistValued Senior Member

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I'm not sure we know that. There are plausible abiogenesis scenarios that rely on the chemistry of deep ocean hot water vents, not the sun.

My understanding is that there are good reasons for thinking that photosynthesis arrived quite late in the evolution of life, as shown by the time of arrival of an atmosphere with free O2 in it.

18. ### Michael 345New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldlValued Senior Member

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nebel said: β
Satellites operate in zero gravity so, why would there be time dilation because of it?

How can you be so lacking in knowledge of satellites to think they operate in zero gravity???

You do know the MOON is within the Earth's gravity field???

And satellites are a lot closer to Earth and much deeper within Earth's gravity field

Correct β

NO - well not really

Weightlessness is a balance between the satellites falling to Earth (yes gravity) and the speed of the satellite pushing it over the horizon

BUT weightlessness is more NOT HAVING A PLATFORM ON WHICH TO PLACE THE SATELLITE TO BE ABLE TO WEIGH IT

So the moon is weightless as is the Earth

Gravity not involved

19. ### Xelasnave.1947Valued Senior Member

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How do you know what he is thinking?
That is what I did not say.
But did you weigh either of them?
Alex

20. ### amberRegistered Member

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I do not think you could have such a box, but if you had a box that could stop loss and gain of energy then I assume time would stop for the interior of the box.

21. ### amberRegistered Member

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323
I have a time dilation question for you kind people.

In the Caesium atom experiment , if a person(s) could count out aloud, fast enough to count the frequency of the caesium atom, when one person is counting slower , does this not just mean they are counting slower?

22. ### Xelasnave.1947Valued Senior Member

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They would not make a good musican if they cant keep the beat...if they are not in step they are not really counting anymore.
Alex

23. ### amberRegistered Member

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Yes they would most certainly be out of synchronisation. But would counting slow affect time?