....meanwhile, in the Land of the "Free"

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Michael, Apr 5, 2017.

  1. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    Irish Central: Why selling Irish Kerrygold butter is now a criminal offense in this US state.

    Apparently, we need a GiverMint agency to determine which butter is 'suitable' for the palates of functionally illiterate Government-schooled Americans.

    Under a 1970 law all butter sold in the state [of WI] must be subjected to scrutiny by a panel, which recently ruled Kerrygold was not compliant. Their problem with Kerrygold’s products was that the cattle who produce the milk for the cheese and butter are grass fed, something the panel ruled was against state law. Any shopkeepers who continue to stock the brand face a $1,000 fine and up to six months in jail.​

    It should be noted, should you refuse to pay the State your fine, resist tyranny and your imprisonment in a Government cage; well, you can be legally shot in the head. And will be, for the Good of Society, because 'We' voted, and 'You use the Roads'.
    The State has that right.
    Which is why it was LIMITED in America.
    But, thanks to Progressive Socialism, THIS farce is now the norm. We now live in a Nation State where so-called 'free' Americans require permission from their Government Political Masters, to engage in ANY form of trade.

    Apparently, Americans are too stupid to determine if their butter is "sufficiently creamy, properly salted, or too crumbly.” No no no, we need a Government REGULATOR to determine that for us.

    Welcome to America, the "Democratic" Social Paradise. Where if you propose cutting regulations, you're Hitler incarnate.

    1) This is an example of regulatory capture (no different than a Medical Degree by the bye).
    2) Those that so-called profit, do not profit. See, they're rent-seekers (no different from Medical Doctors, by the bye).
    3) What they make, is actually termed spoils.
    4) Pretending we live in anything resembling a free-society, with free-markets, is just that: pretending.
    5) If you want good butter, then you need FREE trade and decentralization.

    Not going to happen in the USA.

    And that's sort of the point, America no longer exists. We're not Americans. That was an idea. Eliminated by Progressive Socialists / State Authoritarians / bullshitters, over 100 years ago. We now live as Citizens OF (property of) the U.S.A.
     
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  3. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    https://www.google.co.id/amp/www.da...mp/Kerrygold-butter-banned-Wisconsin-law.html

    Seems to be more of a administration compliance issue

    Not sure why and what the original compliance regulation sought to cover but I think it would not be a grass fed issue

    It MIGHT be a attempt to exclude non compliant butter in order to protect home state butter

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  5. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    As always with Michael, some correction of fact is necessary to make sense of his claims.
    https://www.milwaukeemag.com/wisconsin-state-ban-butter/
    The problem is not that the butter is from grass fed cows. The problem is that the dairy operation involved has not been US government certified as producing "Grade A" milk. This is not a surprise - it's in Ireland, and US government inspectors are far away.

    Wisconsin is the only State I know of to require US Grade A milk in such dairy products sold in the State - which I would guess was motivated by a desire to protect its famous dairy State "brand name" by ensuring local quality, and its powerful agricultural interests from other States's farmers - not foreign imports.

    The US as a whole is of course not involved - Minnesota and Illinois and Michigan grocery stores will be happy to fill in the gap. So rather than America not existing, we have a sign of Wisconsin not existing. We are no longer Wisconsinites. That was an idea, eliminated by Progressive Socialist (but nevertheless keen market and brand sensitive agribusiness) interests in 1970.

    If we are going to take this crap seriously at all.

    btw: Wisconsin is an interesting study in the transition from unregulated to regulated capitalism - which happened only after the unregulated kind had nearly destroyed the place:
    The contribution of the great land grant universities to US prosperity (Leopold, as well as Babcock, was a UofW professor) stands out.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2017
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  7. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    Noncompliant butter? What next? Smash the tractors? I mean, think of the jobs!

    The sooner we end the FDA, and replace it with a free-market, job creating, company - the better.
     
  8. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    It's a State scam to funnel more spoils to big agro who buy political hacks, a dime a dozen. The point here is that there shouldn't BE a group of people (aka: an 'agency'), in a government or otherwise, who can initiate State violence in order to determine what adult Citizens can eat or drink. That there is, says something about how far from the ideals of the America that was founded we have traveled.

    Anyway, most Government Schooled Americans barely read a Grace level 6, I'm sure they're not missing much.

    Or, eliminate the FDA altogether.

    had produced enough wealth to make regulation possible. For example: the Second Industrial Revolution.


    Regulation is only good for two people: The rent-seeker and the regulatory "agency".


    Again, the fact that Americans (living WI or otherwise) think it's 'reasonable' to have a Government agency 'regulate them' (like the tax chattel they are) is evidence enough we no longer live in anything that remotely resembles the American the Framers envisioned. Something to reflect on back on as society continues down the Road to Serfdom.
     
  9. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    There isn't. Government agencies in this matter - oversight of marketed food - determine what corporations cannot sell to people for money.
    Because Wisconsin government in 1970 failed to predict the future, and used the FDA grades as benchmarks for their own legislation?
    No, it hadn't. That wealth had left most of the State, leaving behind a ruined landscape with impoverished people (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisconsin_Death_Trip) soon facing an incoming Great Depression. The wealth in Wisconsin itself, that did not leave the landscape and pile up in distant banks, came after the regulations and the universities and so forth.
    I know this subtlety is difficult for you to grasp, but a corporation is not in fact a person.

    Most modern American corporations would have been punished as criminal enterprises in most of the US back then - the Framers regulated corporations heavily, and flatly banned most of what we see today. That's the America the Framers envisioned - heavily regulated and taxed in the realm of corporate importing and exporting.
     
  10. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    The income tax was not part of the original Constitution. Most of the taxes were collected based on public services used, such as toll roads. The exception was during times of war. This system required the government produce value, that the citizens were willing to pay for. A good toll road was a time saver and worth the price. Once they added income tax, ratified in 1913, the government no longer had to produce value, to raise revenue. It could just take money, and become very wasteful and inefficient.

    America was unique and formed a government of the people, for the people and by the people. This puts the citizen as the top dog, instead of the royalty and government agent. This meant that the new government was to become the public servant; butler and maid, which got compensated with new revenue, if it did good. When you take money from people, via an income tax, the government no longer need to produce a useful service. They can force you to buy junk. The income tax changed the role of government, from a government of and for the people, to a government by and for the elite in government and their business cronies who donate to them.

    Trump is a businessman in service industries; hotels, casinos, stores, golf courses, all of which cater to people. Each of these businesses treat people like kings and queens, so you happily part with you money. This is close to the old fashion government for the people, where tax revenue is based on the quality of the services offered. Trump, first needs to drain the swamp or all the ripoff artists who like to steal money and power through tax and regulations. It also means the attitude of government needs to be restored to service orientated, which treats its citizens as welcome guests. It is no longer about shaking down citizens, to pay for illegals, because the illegals provide benefit to the power brokers in government, who wish to lord over the citizens.
     
  11. arfa brane call me arf Valued Senior Member

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    Wellwisher, you left out an important word: Trump's hotels, casinos, golf courses, all cater to rich people.
    There are people who are not treated like kings and queens by any of these businesses, lots of people, including those who work there.

    Lastly, America was not, and is not, unique in attempting to form a government "By, the people, etc". How's that going, by the way?
     
  12. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    No. Most Federal revenue in the beginning was from tariffs on imported goods: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tariffs_in_United_States_history

    but Federal income taxes on wage income and the like were perfectly ok according to the original Constitution.
     
  13. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    Which is wrong and immoral. We don't need a public "servant" to determine what we, their supposed 'masters', can eat or drink or sell to someone under contract to eat or drink.

    What don't you get here?

    It's quite simple:
    Imagine if money was not exchanged. Would you be comfortable with a "Governmental agency" having "Oversight" as to what you can serve to your dinner guests in your home? Does that sound 'reasonable' to you? If not, then the EXACT same reasoning applies to when you ask them to chip in for dinner. The notion you would be required to fill-in paperwork, and/or obtain a government licence, or even the idea you'd have to BE licensed to have guests over to dinner is Orwellian.

    Yet, given half the chance, you Statist Authoritarians WILL demand it. Watch iceaura, you'll see. You'll demand the State make dinner illegal. In time this will happen. And is happening. That's how insane you people are. You think if you brand something the FDA it magically becomes 'normal' and therefore is 'okey-dokey'.

    The exchange of money isn't 'magic'. The fact that you do or do not hand someone a 5 dollar note for your food, doesn't change the argument. Only in your head. Because you're an Authoritarian Statist. Your program is making you think "wa wa wait a minute, where's MY cut!? My free-shit?!? You know, for the good of society. Because The Rich.... blah blah blah" Which is why you Statists will ban every new technology that evolves to make life more prosperous in the USA (or anywhere else for that matter).

    Mark my words: You will resort to a level of Orwellian spying undreamed of by Orwell himself. NOT for safety. But because you want free-shit. In the end, the agencies, the government, the fiat currency, the taxation of labor, Citizenship.... all of this is only a means for you to steal. You just tell yourself it's for The Roads. To feel good about it. In reality you just want free-shit. Like free medical goods, or education, or whatever. Roads. Just free free free shit. Which is why free-shit-Sanders made so much headway. You Statists love the Police State, which is what your utopia's ALWAYS degenerate into. Because then you don't have to dirty your hands to steal your free-shit. But, at the end of the day, it is, what it is. ANYONE who thinks it's sane to use State violence against two humans in the exchange of food is a brainwashed twat.

    "Citizens" of the State indeed. I hope they like the taste of their butter, it cost them quite a lot in civil liberty and personal freedom, hope it tastes good.
     
  14. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Unfortunately the public DO need regulations to cover situations such as food quality

    Otherwise you could be eating Cowpat pies being marketed as

    ' Pies made from genuine cow product '

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  15. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Again:
    We do need some kind of oversight, and government we elect is the best found so far, on what commercial interests are allowed to market to the public under various guises.
     
  16. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    Elected officials are not chosen based competency tests. Elections are more about popularity, which often involves promises and spin. What happens is the people who get elected are often experts at running for office. They have good sales and actor skills, but not necessarily on the job skills. Therefore the do nothing government is based on incompetence disguised by actors as partisanship. A moron with the appearance of strong conviction looks wise.

    For these actors to reach a wide audience and get elected, they need funding for the marketing and staging. They need producers, directors and critic who will give a good review. This comes from special interests, who are looking out for their own advantages. The people behind the regulating are often not competent, but are beholden to others. It is not a fair system if you are not with their program, or are will to pay the actor, for an exemption.
     
  17. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    I sure am glad to see the Republican's are protecting the rights of the mentally ill. The mentally ill still don't have adequate health care or anything but their right to own guns has just been guaranteed.

    Funny goddamn country I live in.
     
  18. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    Since the turn of the century, the U.S. has dumped trillions of dollars into wars, piled huge debt onto students, forced legions of foreigners to leave after getting advanced degrees, driven millions of Americans out of the workplace with felonies for sometimes minor offenses and hobbled the housing market with hastily crafted layers of rules.

    Lets start with the "wars".
    09/11/2001
    Saudis attack the usa.
    We then spend trillions of dollars attacking the Saudis enemies, mostly shiites and secular governments. While giving up some of our freedoms in the process.
    ...........
    If this is an example of how our government operates:
    Will this madness ever end?
    Do we need more regulations bought and paid for by the people/corporations who should be regulated?
    ................
    In 2015, the gross federal debt amounted to 56,375 U.S. dollars per capita.
    (median household income was $51,939 in 2013)
    ............................................

    meanwhile It does not matter which party has been in power.

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    Bush raised the debt from 60 to 80% of GDP, then Obama raised it from 80% to 104%.

    Electing in a new executive hasn't changed the overall picture.
     
  19. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Most of Obama's belongs to W&Cheney. Changing executive made a large difference in the rate of increase, despite the lack of change in Congress.
    According to your graph, it makes a huge difference since the fascist takeover of the Republican Party - the difference between acceleration and moderation of the national debt.

    None of this affects Wisconsin State dairy regulation.

    Not until the fascist takeover of the Republican Party is repudiated at the voting booth. Midterms in 2018.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2017
  20. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    A) That would rarely, if ever, happen. Certainly not worth the billions wasted on regulatory agencies and loss if civil freedom.
    B) Contract Law is a safer and better means of protecting the consumer, if that's what you care about. Regulations are in place to protect the seller and rent-seeker from litigation.
     
  21. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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  22. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    puerile

    Regulations don't prevent a bartender from serving tainted alcohol, firstly, they'd be sued under basic common law (GASP, you mean LAWS existed before regulatory agencies? You don't say???), and secondly, bars that sell tainted, or even watered down alcohol, tend to go bust quite quickly - and are replaced in the market by bars that serve good alcohol.

    All Government regulation does is (a) prevent competition through regulatory capture and licencing scams, and (b) protect rent-seekers from litigation from patrons. Which is EXACTLY why WI farmers paid to have laws that prevent Irish butter from competing against their own inferior products. Which sucks for the WI poor, who eat low quality butter, see, the rich WI residents can afford to drive out of State, buy a bunch of butter, and can afford to store it in an extra fridge. Which, is what some of them do, do

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    One wonders though: Since we're too f*cking retarded to have the legal freedom to chose butter, you know, because someone might get hurt - how about having children? If you think people are too daft to make a choice regarding their dairy, then what about those same people's ability to create life and then care for a totally dependent and helpless infant? Shouldn't THAT require a licence as well? Jesus, compared to caring for a child, serving a drink or selling Irish butter is so utterly (

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    ) inconsequential as to be irrelevant.

    IF you were to follow your own line of reasoning (which is to say, your belief in State Authoritarianism) then you'd agree that the State, as enforced through an Agency, should determine who can and cannot procreate. Of course you would think so, because if you don't, then you obviously don't care for children enough to ensure daft irresponsible people become their parents. And to make that point, you'll post a puerile example of how Ayn Rand, Rand Paul and Paul Ryan all walk into a bar and die of alcohol poisoning, when in reality, they're most likely to be killed off by an error made during their overly-regulated, overly priced, rent-seekers-dream medical treatment.

    In the meantime, now that we've killed off Christianity (and I for one am a Strong Atheist) let's see how long Belief in the State works. See, the way I read history, there's a good reason why we had BOTH institutions. And a good reason why, when we only have one (see Nationalism/Socialism or Theocracy), we end up with Authoritarian crap-holes (see: An American Welfare Ghetto, Democratic Socialist Paradise North Korea, KSA or Iran).


    The fact Americans are so cowed by their Regulators that they cannot even legally chose which butter to purchase, says pretty much all there needs to be said.

    America Is Dead
    Long Live The USA
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2017
  23. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    I would agree to that

    I would also support for research into genitic engineering to make sex as painful FOR BOTH SEXES as the most painful delivery

    And every delivery as pleasurable as the most romantic sex

    THAT might slow the population growth down a bit

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