Mexiphobia

Discussion in 'Politics' started by hypewaders, Aug 10, 2010.

  1. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    It's on the rise in the USA. I think it's indicative/symptomatic of our national insecurity, and I mean in a psychological way.

    The US economy is dependent upon illegal labor from South of the border, most especially in our food chain. Social security is dependent upon millions of illegal workers who pay into the till with easily-detectable phoney numbers that the IRS and ICE conveniently ignore, because these valued contributors of billion$ into SS do not and will not ever collect the benefits that US citizens do.

    I've worked as foreman with "illegal" Mexican workers, and I have never known more hard-working and down-to-earth people. I've seen them earn every penny they make, and never complain. I've admired them, supporting their families, lifting up their communities, and returning home to become police officers, business owners, and community leaders back in Mexico. We benefit from their presence here as much and more than they benefit by toiling here.

    As the crumbling US empire is exposed, illegal immigrants are convenient scapegoats for all sorts of fears and insecurities in the USA. But because they are intrinsic and indispensable in our economy, the hypocrisy of the race-baiting and fear-mongering about their mingling will remain apparent to all who look honestly beneath the self-entitled and self-absorbed European surface. We are a nation and continent whose every great economic advance has been fed and fueled by "illegitimate" toil and sweat. We have very little to fear from the people who harvest our food, and do so much of the menial labor that US citizens will never do for wages that will bring food to our tables, and build and maintain our properties at prices that we are willing to pay and can afford.

    The problems of violence, the drug trade, gangs, etc. at our borders could all be well managed, if it were not more convenient, politically profitable, and affirming of sentiments of racist superiority to allow for things to deteriorate and fester at an beyond our southern border. Our US projects in Afghanistan and Iraq are far more unrealistic than it would be to cooperate in fostering a thriving American economy, from North to South of both continents. We exist in an ignorant tribal age in the Western Hemisphere, still clinging to obsolete notions of the difference of others, and forgetting that Mexican and South American human potentials are identical to the drive that lifted the US economy from the Great Depression.

    We Americans are all in this together. Mexiphobia is keeping us down, and tearing us apart.
     
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  3. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    In my experience, illegal Mexicans are every bit as fine a bunch of people as you describe.

    The US would be better off without them, and Mexico would be better off if illegal immigration had never been fostered. The societal (and economic) rot accompanying the custom of establishing a vulnerable class of imported menials is not good for the US, and the safety valve of money from abuse and servility elsewhere that allows Mexico to dodge political shakeout while its structural problems grow has not been good for Mexico.

    The US ship of State has come to resemble the USS San Pablo , and that is a depressing fate for such a country as could have been.
     
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  5. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    Border security is certainly a legitimate issue in this age of terrorism, on the other hand the US does have a need for workers especially in fields such as agriculture.

    Unfortunately, neither political party really wants to do anything about either issue. Republicans appreciate the cheap labor while fearing a potential new Democrat voting base. On the other hand, Democrats see a potential new voting bloc, but fear a depression of wages due to increased numbers of Mexican immigrants that would anger the unions.

    In short, Republicans want Mexicans to work but not vote; while Democrats want Mexicans to vote but not work.

    The result is a stalemate in which we largely ignore the problem except at election time when both sides use it as a political football but then go back to completely ignoring it once the election is over.

    Perhaps after the election in November, in which I expect a Republican takeover of the House and Senate, both sides will be forced to actually work together and take responsibility for governing as occurred with Clinton after the 1994 Republican takeover which gave rise to welfare reform and a balanced budget. Then, perhaps, we can finally deal with this issue in a serious manner.
     
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  7. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    The US has a high unemployment rate especially among the uneducated. The US has been losing small and medium sized farms at a high rate, so that while the number of people working in agriculture has held steady the nature of their economic relationship with agriculture has changed - they are now mostly wage labor and temp workers and contract owners, where they used to be self employed and permanent residents of owned land.

    This has contributed to a degradation of the soil fertility and other wealth of the agricultural landscape (a public resource, in the first place) as well as of the rural human society.

    The US need for farmers is not met in this way. The US "need" for agricultural workers is problematical, and one that should be met first within the society - the only way to keep Tyson and Monsanto and the like accountable.
     
  8. Giambattista sssssssssssssssssssssssss sssss Valued Senior Member

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    Mmmm! Cheap labor from illegals! A truly free market! Pay as little as you can for maximum profits. Gotta love it!
    I envision a country where everything is controlled by government, and a handful of mega corporations that in turn run the government. I envision a country where most people will be happy to work for minimum wage.

    Will anyone help me to realize this vision?

    Well, in my vision for America's future, we won't need people from Mexico to labor long hours in fields, since actual US citizens will be more than happy to fill in for them.

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    On a serious note, I think something can definitely be said for large agribusiness, middlemen, and increasing profit margins.
    Technology has only improved since the "good old days" and yet it is harder and harder for small farms in many cases to make a decent living.

    You can get good cheap produce at farmer's markets, often I would think without as much pesticides, and you're supporting local farmers and gardeners. You can also grow your own.

    I question the necessity of employing cheap labor from undocumented illegal immigrants.

    Perhaps agriculture needs to be seriously reformed?
     
  9. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    WHEW! For a moment there I thought I'd have to ask my doctors if I might be suffering from this condition as well aas all of my others!

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  10. Doreen Valued Senior Member

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    I like this analysis.
     
  11. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    It bollixes an important factor in the issue, which is legality: the two Parties are not symmetrically in conflict.

    Reps are uniformly concealing their dependence on undermining the rule of law, their interference with the role of government in regulating corporate behavior, and their dishonest playing of both sides of the fence (in every sense).

    The general body of Dems (the Blue Dogs and other rightwing extremists excepted) is muddled in a different way, split internally but more transparently over the best way to uphold the rule of law rather than concealing their opposition to governance of any kind.
     
  12. WillNever Valued Senior Member

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    No they aren't. I have lived in two or three states that had hardly any illegal immigrants whatsoever, as compared to most states. One of them was the highest per capita income state in the USA. People like to say things like "who will mow lawns and be janitors, without illegals?" Well... actually, plenty of citizens are willing to do those things.

    A lot of the country does fine without employing a virtual slave labor force. Try it some time.

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  13. Cowboy My Aim Is True Valued Senior Member

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    Is it really "Mexiphobia", or is it that peoples' legitimate concerns about the problem of and problems caused by illegal immigration are coming under fire because (for reasons of geography) most of our illegals come from Mexico?
     
  14. Cowboy My Aim Is True Valued Senior Member

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    I agree with this. People used to mow their own lawns and wash their own cars. If securing our border means that they have to do it again, they'll get over it. Does anyone actually believe that all the restaurants in America will allow their dishes to go unwashed rather than pay a few extra dollars to hire American citizens and legal residents?
     
  15. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    A big problem is that businesses will hire these people on and pay them little to do work that others who are legal need. The owners of those companies should be sought out and fined and jailed for doing this for it hurts everyone except themselves. When the owners do not have to pay taxes, insurances and give them little in income the owners become dictators and profit immensely off of those who are here illegally.
     
  16. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    And the operative word is;

    ILLEGAL!!!


    And guess what, those illegals depress the wage scale for legal workers by as much as 40%, and end up replace the legal worker, when the legal worker can no longer survive on the depressed wage scale.

    http://www.fairus.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=16973&security=1601&news_iv_ctrl=1017

    This wage depressing effect of illegal immigrant workers was documented in 2008 by researchers working for the Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta, who found that "average wages among documented [legal] workers are lower in industries that employ undocumented [illegal] workers and that a greater share of undocumented workers in those industries further lowers wages."15 Immigrants introduce downward wage pressure in low-skilled occupations almost everywhere they are found — out of America’s 25 largest metropolitan areas, immigrant wages are at least 10 percent lower than native wages in 24 cities for cashiers and clerks, 23 for construction traders, 22 for cleaning and other building services, and all 25 for fabricators.16

    Besides losing jobs, some native workers end up reliant on public assistance. A 1996 study estimated that 1,880,000 American workers are displaced from their jobs every year by immigration and that the cost for providing welfare and assistance to these Americans was over $15 billion a year.17

    15. Fiscal Policy Institute, "Immigrants and the Economy," December 2009
    16. National Academy of Sciences estimates that approximately 44 percent of wage depression among low-skilled Americans during 1980-1994 was due to immigration.
    17.The Net Costs of Immigration, Donald Huddle, Rice University, October 1996.
     
  17. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Sovereignty is just a word. What meaning do borders have before people? Who respects them anymore?

    When there are no more immigrants coming in, thats the time to start getting worried.
     
  18. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    the illegals do jobs that legals won't do. they have tried to get unemployed people and welfare recipients to do those jobs no one showed up.
     
  19. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    The word illegal is not operative. As I mentioned above, the federal government has millions of bogus social security numbers on file along with the addresses of the corporations and companies that are employing illegal immigrant workers, and collecting taxes and social security for the federal government.

    As pjdude just mentioned, that the federal government doles out money to able-bodied and able-minded people who could be put to work by their government in improving our nation's infrastructure is another separate issue. Welfare recipients are not squabbling with undocumented workers for their jobs.

    Illegal immigration is thriving not only because the federal government is duplicitious (using IRS data to collect from illegal immigrants and not deport them) but also because illegal immigration fills a need. There is not presently a legitimate workforce in the USA to replace "illegal" labor. We cannot feed and house each other at our accustomed prices without illegal labor, and in the present economy an enforcement of existent immigration laws would be a tremendous inflationary shock.

    The undocumented workers who populate much of the lowest tier of our labor force are as indispensable in our present economy as they are to our darker racist and exceptionalist sentiments, scapegoating others for their willingness to do more for and with less.

    Mexicans are not the real problem in the USA. Our overarching problem is our refusal to face together the reality that we are a dishonest society, and we will remain incompetent as a nation in terms of rational initiatives for our security and prosperity, until we stop the doubletalk and face facts.
     
  20. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    also note that same people whining about illegal immigration would be the same people whining about the cost of produce if it was picked by legal workers. you want the $1.99 a pound fruits and veggies than the illegals are here to stay.
     
  21. smokinglizard Registered Senior Member

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    The difference between an illegal immigrant and a slave is the slave didn't come here and work here willingly (and gladly, usually).

    There is a surplus of labor in the world -- too many people, too little work. And there's no fix. Yet another catch-22:

    - If you block them from entering, then they'll outcompete us by producing our goods and services cheaper than we do (like China and India have discovered)...and they have no qualms about paying their workers pennies per hour. No wonder Walmart is the low price leader.

    - If you let them in legally, they take jobs from Americans and depress American wages because, well, there's a surplus of labor. Too many people in a life raft sinks the raft...and kills all the people.

    Sad...really.
     
  22. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,994
    That would be reason enough to deport them all as an emergency rehab measure, a national response to imminent disaster, despite the huge cost and hardship.

    An equivalent situation (directly relevant, as it happens, by material connection to the Mexican side of this) would be the discovery that our police were supporting themselves on "illegal" bribes and shakedowns, by necessity, because their salaries were too low.

    Fortunately, that is unlikely. What seems to have happened is that the earnings of 2/3 of the working population have been levered downward in synchrony with the availability of cheap menials (used to smooth the slide), and the difference collected by the rich. That is reversible.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2010
  23. BenTheMan Dr. of Physics, Prof. of Love Valued Senior Member

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    I also take exception with the title of the thread---I'd say that most people supporting immigration reform don't have any problems with Mexican (or central American) people in general. They DO have a problem with the issues associated with illegal border crossing.

    This is pretty immaterial to the thread, but I have a myriad of stories along these lines---my mother owned a cleaning service, and had a terrible time finding legal people who were willing to work, even at $10-$15 an hour! She refused to hire illegal people on principle, which limited her ability to grow her business. Her competitors were able to do more business because they hired illegals, which (subsequently) increased their margins (they weren't paying $10 an hour). There's a fine line between providing a social net and subsidizing people to not work---given these experiences, it's hard for me to see that we're on the right side of the line.
     

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