misogyny

Discussion in 'Comparative Religion' started by mathman, Feb 20, 2019.

  1. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 69 years old Valued Senior Member

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    Not directed at yourself but life is a continuum ie it started and has run continuous ever since

    It is not a stop start process but flows smoothly from one adult life form into the fetal form to the child up to the adult version

    No debate from those Scientists and of course the medical profession

    Unfortunately politicians and the legal system need to (they don't) have a stop start position to make things tidy

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  3. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    True, although the issue we're dealing with here isn't really "life"; it's personhood.

    I mean, we have no problem killing lots of little things like skin cells, bacteria and bugs, because those things will never look up at the stars and wonder.

    It's personhood that some people believe begins at conception.
     
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  5. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 69 years old Valued Senior Member

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    Incorrect (here)

    Personhood (clumsy word)

    That begins when, if I am the midwife delivering the baby, at the time I cut the umbilical cord

    I miss those awe and wonder moments

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  7. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    The problem is that misogyny is an outwardly-projected attitude. If you hate women, I guess that's fine, hypothetically - just as long as you don't ever interact with any women or impact on their lives in any way.

    Do you agree?
     
  8. Bowser Right Here, Right Now Valued Senior Member

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    Well, the word is used so loosely. If we are using it to slander religious groups, then let's at least give them the privilege of actually being misogynists, whatever meaning that word might have in the context of this thread.
     
  9. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    What's wrong with the standard meaning?

    misogyny (n.) - hatred of women.
     
  10. Bowser Right Here, Right Now Valued Senior Member

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    The OP simply questions why men dominate positions of authority within religious followings, equating it with misogyny. Does a male dominated organization necessarily mean it is based on a hatred of women?
     
  11. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Not necessarily. I guess that's why the opening poster asked the question? If not misogyny, then why the restriction to male clergy? Have you an alternative explanation?
     
  12. Bowser Right Here, Right Now Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, men in traditional religious organizations have been the recognized authorities. Does that necessarily imply a hatred of women?
     
  13. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    To me it implies a probable desire on the part of the men to exclude women from positions of power within the religious organisations. The underlying motives for that would not necessarily have to be misogynistic, although clearly they are discriminatory.
     
  14. Bowser Right Here, Right Now Valued Senior Member

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    I agree--not hateful. Now, what about the women who choose to be part of said organizations? Are they knowingly choosing their role in the power structure? I understand that certain religious practices are required in some countries, and I believe we both would agree that participation should be a choice, but what of those in the West where people do have a choice?
     
  15. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    When those power structures were set up, women typically had no real say. They were, in effect, forced to participate in the religious organisations according to the rules dictated by the patriarchy. That is still the case in some countries, as you say.

    In practice, the social pressure on girls and women to participate in established religions that do not allow women to play an equal role in leadership can be significant enough that the notion of a free choice disappears, even in the supposedly permissive "West". Western women indoctrinated into religions that oppress them do, in some cases, take the brave step of opting out of the system they were brought up in. Some of those women join other, less oppressive, religious communities. Others give up on religion and adopt secular practices.

    Why do you ask?
     
  16. Bowser Right Here, Right Now Valued Senior Member

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    I would argue the choice exists regardless of the social pressure; otherwise, we would need assume women are too weak to make a choice.

    Once they left their cave?
     
  17. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    What is meant by ''hate,'' in terms of misogyny, is contempt for women...a viewing of women that they are threats to men, and therefore must be shunned, or made to feel inferior. Many misogynists have a harem of women by their side at all times, or on their Facebook/IG friends lists...so one might assume that such a guy doesn't have a disdain for women. But, it's just to use those women for sex, attention, etc...all the while, not having any respect for those women. Most misogynists have zero female friends; they're just not capable of viewing women as on the same level as them, and only care to objectify them, sexually. Usually, misogynists are narcissists, so they have other underlying issues to their personality.

    In religions that have patriarchal type hierarchies, those religions tend to be misogynistic because they view women as beneath men - inferior to men. They don't ''hate'' women, but they have a prejudice towards them. The irony of this, is that in Christianity for example, Jesus treated women equally, he reached out to them often, and approached them more than he did men. That was very taboo for that time period, and it has been rumored that Mary Magdalene was one of his apostles but it was kept secret by the Catholic Church, for obvious reasons.

    So, Christian men who are sexists and misogynists, seem to have twisted a lot of the NT to suit their own end goals, in terms of how they treat women.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2019
  18. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    I suppose you think you're strong and free to make your own choices, free from social pressures and expectations. Maybe you ought to reflect on whether that's true for you. If not, perhaps it's not as easy for women as you make out, either. I assume you don't regard yourself as weak and unable to choose.

    Sorry, you've lost me. What are you talking about?
     
  19. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    There is always a choice. Women simply have less choice than men when it comes to leadership positions in many religions.

    However, having a choice does not mean they are really free to choose. For example, if the government jailed you and insisted you still had complete freedom to choose where you wanted to sleep (top bunk or bottom bunk) you would likely not agree with them. Even though you can still make that choice.
     
  20. Bowser Right Here, Right Now Valued Senior Member

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    Granted, most religions were formed under the guidance of men, but nothing stops women from forming their own religious practice. It is, more so now than ever, a choice.
     
  21. Bowser Right Here, Right Now Valued Senior Member

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    Okay, I would like to shave my hair, but am concerned about the reaction of coworkers. Is that what you are talking about? Whether I choose to cut my hair or conform to the expectations of my coworkers, I'm still making a choice.

    In Western culture, you would need be living in a cave not to be exposed to new ideas.
     
  22. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    You still don't see the problem with sexism and segregation.

    Boys: "Let's make the living room a Boys Only Club."
    Girls: "That's not fair. You can't deny us access based on our sex."
    Boys: "Look, there's a whole dining room. Why don't you make it a Girls Only Club? That's fair, right?'"
    Girls: "No it's not. We don't want to be equally sexist. We want to eliminate sexism!"
     
  23. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Right, and they are doing that more and more often. Good to see the old misogynist religions failing - but they are still misogynist.

    As a comparison, it is certainly true that a big club that doesn't allow any blacks is a "choice" the members can make. I am still glad they have almost completely died out.
     

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