model to toy with for the holy days: The universe as a wave rolling through time.

Discussion in 'Alternative Theories' started by nebel, Dec 23, 2017.

  1. nebel Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,470
    In this model of our universe, time is the water in the infinite , eternal unstable nothing full of energy, that some propose.
    A thrown peppel event has added an impetus to the unstable nothing, at a point in time past, and in the water is now an expanding wave, moving through time into the future. The energy, mass in the space dimension created causes a tension, that draws the water inward and gives the steepened slope of the wave in time we ride on.
    Our personal rides through time are short, riding through time on energy in space.
    have fun toying with this idea, so:
    There are waves in time.
    could there be waves in time:
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,531
    What is a peppel?
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. nebel Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,470
    A symbolic pebble with more pep, enough to start the the energy, space wave moving out from the aimed-at or random point in time.
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. nebel Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,470
    Another interesting phenomenon of time can be observed, when two oscillating bodies are embedded in it, through the combination of time and space.
    Standing wave patterns appear.
    When surfing on a smooth wave, such patterns can be observed, even being carried along in the wave's movement.
    Geometric models are easier on the eyes than algebraic ones.
     
  8. nebel Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,470

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    This happens when a pebble gives an energy push to a surface tensioned.
     
  9. Michael 345 Home 2 days still jet lag sleepy Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,604
  10. nebel Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,470
    Thank you! and that is just a drop in the bucket compared to the BB (big bucket.)
     
  11. Michael 345 Home 2 days still jet lag sleepy Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,604
    OK seriously?
    I don't see any model of the Universe
    Time (a favourite topic of mine) is a great CONCEPT. However, by virtue of being a concept, it is NOT real. It has NO physicality. So it is a big big big mistake to compare it with something, water, which is real and does have physicality

    eternal unstable nothing full of energy, that some propose

    Not sure how to translate the above but the last word - propose - kills the whole model beyond resuscitation
    Start to anthropomorphise the eternal unstable nothing full of energy (what ever that is) you go straight from wherever you are to Woo Woo land
    You certainly do not pass CREDIBILITY and collect anything

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    PS

    Regarding the non existence of time you might like to catch up with a book called The Invention of Time and Space by Patrice F. Dassonville which goes in great detail of why time does not exist
     
  12. nebel Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,470
    You are right, it is meant to be a toy, not a serious model of the universe, certainly not a bona fide alternate theory. Ah,
    Time, the theater of some of my life's great moments, riding the perfect waves (energy not gravity like like skiing). Cutting existence into short ~ 10 seconds of time intervals of seemingly being directly connected with the forces of the cosmos, woo woo. seriously though,
    Is the universe not energy in its different embodiments moving into the future? From a small, high amplitude, beginning expanding to near flatness now?
    Time is a great Concept indeed, present in every meaningful equation , essential to position, to orient ourselves.
    (time is more important than the orient) which gives you direction only in of 3 dimensions, whereas time is associated with them all. Almost like having timespace.
    We might not exist if we had no time, left behind if we are not riding the wave.
    thanks, also for the recommended reading.
    have a good time.
    PS: Time as a water Wave component gives you a great analogy of the duality of light waves, , photons too: The energy in a rotating wave ( that came all the way across the Pacific, becomes crashing particles as they break, become a bore.
    (why does Hawai, CA have great waves? they originate, are made in Japan.
    added: for the eternal zero sum content of nothingness, consider Krauss: " A universe from nothing " there is no such thing as nothing.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
  13. nebel Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,470
    Do we not compare time, side by side so to speak with real physical entities, processes all the time? Think Big Ben, Or Big Beginning Bang ( measured in Light years distance traveled at "c")?
     
  14. Michael 345 Home 2 days still jet lag sleepy Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,604
    Only NOW is PRESENT and NOW is continuous. TIME cannot be stop / start into discrete packets no matter how small you make them

    To lay it out clearer

    1/ Time itself does not exist

    2/ The past does not exist

    3/ The future does not exist

    NOW is the only moment happening

    Things, people and the Universe are in existence in NOW

    What is normally regarded as time is better defined as AGE so clocks are NOT time machines

    They are closer to a tape measure as they measure AGE

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  15. Michael 345 Home 2 days still jet lag sleepy Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,604
    Only NOW is PRESENT and NOW is continuous. TIME cannot be stop / start into discrete packets no matter how small you make them

    To lay it out clearer

    1/ Time itself does not exist

    2/ The past does not exist

    3/ The future does not exist

    NOW is the only moment happening

    Things, people and the Universe are in existence in NOW

    What is normally regarded as time is better defined as AGE so clocks are NOT time machines

    They are closer to a tape measure as they measure AGE

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  16. nebel Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,470
    true. because we are moving through time

    to be clearer : the past of the universe does not exist, the wave has passed on.

    to be clearer, the future of the universe does not exist. yet. the wave is moving into it.

    true, you have to have caught the wave, and stayed on it, to have lived.

    Yes, only in the now. you have to keep moving through time, riding the wave.

    well said, or better, they are like the odometers, km counters registering the mileage traveled of the car. In that instrument we can even see the velocity you travel at through time, or on the wave as you move along. if you had a waterproof radar gun.

    Dassonville not in our village library. others?

    M345, don't underestimate the fun of moving through time, surfing the advancing wave of the universe.
     
  17. nebel Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,470
    Well, The past of me does not exist anymore, but I have proof that time existed then in my passe' past!, Photographs of dressed in white linen with the olympic 5 rings emblem: 1936. -- Movie of 1942 with B 17's contrails in the sky. Great times, time existed back then, obviously. probably still does, like the calm water surface that exists after the wave passes.
     
  18. Michael 345 Home 2 days still jet lag sleepy Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,604
    TIME does not exist - hence we cannot move through non existent concepts

    There is no wave to pass on

    Perhaps Amazon books

    Don't think anybody disputes you and everything DID exist - but no longer in existence NOW

    No no no probably

    Again things - water - things with physicality do continue to exist

    Concepts have no physicality ever, hence NEVER exist, hence cannot exist past, present or future

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  19. nebel Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,470
    Very true, My youthful past does not exist any more, not even the places as they were, the time I lived through is truly the past, empty totally, non existent. but

    Time as such has not disappeared, I am still passing through it. I do not exist anywhere else but in the zero length "now" on my way through time on that model's wave.

    In the model there is, --the wave is the "now" of the universe. moving away as ever bigger circles from the Big Beginning Bang.

    That is the reason why we use physical symbols, models of things we can see, equations, analogies to visualize these concepts. The pond having a concentric spreading wave is such a model, and trying to deal what it tells us as movement through time plays out.
     
  20. Michael 345 Home 2 days still jet lag sleepy Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,604
    Again you are confusing AGE - the period between two arbitrary NOW markers - Big Bang mark to current NOW mark = age (a measure of change)

    Fair enough I agree. However you must use a model which mimics the concept

    Think of TIME this way

    A film strip passing through a projector

    Each frame has minute changes

    Each frame is shown before the next frame comes before the light

    When the next frame is ready to be shown a shutter moves to block the light and the next frame is put in position

    That is a model treating TIME as discrete

    But TIME is continuous

    So now imagine TIME as a single slide

    BUT the difference being - the slide projection is not a static image

    So you have a single slide (NOW) being shown - but not a static image

    The image on the slide changes on a continuous PROCESS not stop / start of a strip of film

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  21. nebel Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,470
    I view time as continuous too, , like an indefinitely extending film strip,-- to mix metaphors, (strips* with water and waves).

    Now , have the observer move fast enough over the fixed film, and with enough speed the discreet images of the "now" become smeared out to give us the impression of existing in time, when we are actually only guests in the zero length" now", of the imaginary , non-existent incremental spacing implied with the frames. .
    It is easy to see, when you consider the film (time) fixed over a back-lit viewing table, and you move as you view.
    *I have seen ladies strip on waves.bsw.
     
  22. Michael 345 Home 2 days still jet lag sleepy Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,604
    NO no no

    I suggest you do some research and check and double check the latest concept of time and come back to this thread later

    Cheers

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  23. nebel Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,470
    Yes, wrong! I thought not deeply enough about mixing metaphors, and please disregard that comparison.of nebulous nebel's post #18.
    The only redeeming feature in it, is the 24 frames (or nows) per second smearing out of zero reality, that allows us to see existence as a ongoing business. , not as a nonexistence of adding up many zeros ,"nows".
     

Share This Page