# model to toy with for the holy days: The universe as a wave rolling through time.

Discussion in 'Alternative Theories' started by nebel, Dec 23, 2017.

1. ### river

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time is the consequence of movement , throughout the Universe .

step outside the Universe , look in , movement therefore time , is holistic .

3. ### nebel

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You have to have time, something to step on, to be outside the universe, to look in from the future I suppose. so,
there must be time outside the universe too, not just holistic with, and inside the conditions of the spacetime universe.
sorry, I am mixing metaphors again with the expanding sphere. this is the surfing of the wave model, so:

Picture, if you stepped outside the universe,- but were not an observer, but a participant, like a dynamically soaring Albatross or even a Pelican getting lift above the advancing wave that moves through time, outward from the Big Beginning Bang.
river, time is not the moving flow of a river we drift with, It is the great pond time surface we move through, powered by the energy in the outgoing wave, in this model. thank you.

Last edited: Jan 24, 2018

5. ### river

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you are giving time a physical dimension .

if time is a physical dimension , then changing time in any equation , in and of itself , should have an efficacy on any thing physical . but it doesn't . because time is always intertwined with an objects movement . the objects movement defines time .

take a mustang going 150mph , now while the car is going 150mph , adjust the time , nothing happens because time is nothing more than the measurement of the cars speed . now put the peddle to the metal the car speeds up . time cannot intervene and slow the car down .

see my point ?

time has no efficacy , time has no physical dimension . time is the consequence of the measurement movement , no more no less.

7. ### nebel

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yes I do in the sense that I remove one of the 3 space dimensions and assign its picture to time. and What prompts me to do that, is the thoughts now advanced by the likes of Penrose, Kraus, Carroll, that time is not confined to the universe and does not exists only since the Big Beginning Bang.
While our calculations and representations in coordinate system using time as you define it, work well, it is not the whole cosmic picture.
Time is a dimension, predating our universe's beginning.
I like the Mustang illustration, better yet if it would be the Mustang of my generation, a superb long range aircraft.
In your car example, for me (mixing metaphors again) time would be the road, Mustang is moving over, through time, driver looks ahead to the future, but is only things of the past. Car doing 150 (must be the Autobahn) , but tires touch road (time) at zero speed contact. like us, the now has zero length. Odometer like a clock, registers time, length of road covered (mileage for trip, or age of car) speedometer measure movement through time, rate of progress over road.
I believe your mainstream concept of time inside the universe , and my cosmic view of time as a ,fundamental condition are not mutually exclusive, contradictory. Your's works fine if restricted to the universe, it is the result of timespace having been available to start it all, like the pebble hit in post #1
Keep those Mustangs flying. fight entropy for fighter planes.
remove guns, nothing ages planes and fighters more than use of armmament.

Last edited: Jan 24, 2018
8. ### river

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Disagree

Time taken out of the Universe does not change what time depends on which is movement of physical objects .

Time does not predate our Universe . As I said , time inandofitself has no physical properties , and nobody has shown otherwise .

9. ### nebel

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river: Disagree

Time taken out of the Universe does not change what time depends on which is movement of physical objects .

Time does not predate our Universe . As I said , time inandofitself has no physical properties , and nobody has shown otherwise .

nebel: I hear you, but the last word has not been said yet,

10. ### nebel

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If that is so, why does time ( or movement through it) vanish to zero when the photon movement reaches the absolute max speed limit "c" in a vacuum?

11. ### river

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Because it is a perception by living beings .

To other objects in space movement does not vanish .

12. ### nebel

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I was referring to the fact that a photon in movement will experience no aging, no passage of time. If movement is the creatrice of time, why does it vanish when movement is highest? ( Einstein observing the clock in the tower 'freeze' as he rides off on his wave of light ca, 1905.)

13. ### river

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Perspective , that is what Einstein is referring to . Not the actual " freeze " of the clock , literally ; but from his perspective .

14. ### nebel

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so, are you saying that at the speed of light, time dilation does not happen? that at that clip, 300 000 km/sec, time (or movement through it) does not come to zero? That photons age, light waves age? (not stretched, redshifted because space has expanded)?

15. ### river

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Speed of light does happen , in a pure vacuum . But space is not a pure vacuum. There are particles , plasmas and zero point energy . Rotation , vibration , sound .

Time dilation is about perspective . Those things not within the sphere of the speed of light of any object just watch it go by .

16. ### nebel

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Is that not the problem with light? you can not watch it go by, in part because its forward dimension has shrunk to zero? can not see it go by , unless it bounces off some particles, and enters your eyes directly, having left the main stream?
That is why it is so hard, unrealistic to see the universe as a model advancing as a wave through time I guess. thank you!

17. ### river

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No lights forward movement has not shrunk to zero , just unseen . If light had shrunk to zero then it would never be reflected and therefore seen .

18. ### Michael 345New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldlValued Senior Member

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You cannot watch light go by - EVER - light is invisible

Your eyes reacts to light which has bounced off something before exciting your rods and cones

19. ### river

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True but to the objects in the Universe light energy reacts with them , endlessly .

20. ### nebel

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When hit over the head you are supposed to see stars, in the funnies anyway, but a beam of light, a stream of photon can not be seen from the side, only stragglers that have defected, were detected, because they were reradiated by impurities in the field through which the light wave of photons traveled.
a beam of photons can be bundled, but can a beam of bundled photons affect the field around them? as your comment assets?

21. ### nebel

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Just a thought on this,
Many waves, even those caused by an energy event, when propagating ,announce themselves as a negative occurrence, the trough of a wave arriving as a precursor tho the major impact ( view the tsunami footage). so:
what does say about the BB event as an possible analogy?

22. ### gamelordRegistered Senior Member

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So are you saying Einstein is wrong? Because einstein said space/time is real.

I do think Time exists, here's why.

Because if you and me are real, and we both have consciousness, do you know what this means? That means that when one of us dies, we go back in time to relive the other persons life. Because Obviously i am not experiencing your life and you are not experiencing mine. Yet here is my life right now and for it to be real one day you have to be me Because I am real.

23. ### gamelordRegistered Senior Member

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Your wave theory could coincide with the Multiverse.
Because the peppel could initiate the 3d wave sphere.
I view a TrueWave as a Sphere, a 3D sphere, expanding in size.
With each Point on the sphere its own universe. The sphere is the Time Fabric or Fuel of the Multiverse.
But Consciousness is the Fuel of Time, Consciousness is the Cause of Time, or Is Time.
Thus it would be the very Being of the universe, our own minds are CounterSpheres, trapped in pockets of our own local time, the sphere the godwave.