Model yachts and gyroscopes

Discussion in 'Physics & Math' started by Confused2, Jul 29, 2019.

  1. Confused2 Registered Senior Member

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    I'll admit from the start that I have never successfully analised a gyroscope.

    There are two (or more) problems afflicting model yachts. To counteract the sideways torque of the wind in the sails requires a deep keel. A deep keel causes drag and launching a boat with a deep keel requires venturing into the water beyond wellington depth.

    The design aim is to eliminate the deep keel.

    Sooo.. we look at mounting a gyroscope with the rotating bit in the horizontal plane. With a single gyroscope when the wind blows from the left (or right) the sharp end tries to dive into the water and when the wind blows from the right (or left) the sharp end tries to buck out of the water.

    So we look at the untried option of mounting two contra-rotating gyroscopes in the horizontal plane. Two gyroscopes mounted in this way may agree between themselves that they aren't going to be any use as gyroscopes. Any attempt to rotate the assembly may cause a rift in the space-time continuum OR by rotating this assembly we may be able to generate a constant torque to oppose the horizontal torque resulting from the wind in the sails.

    Assuming (rashly) that we can master a PID controller (Google if unsure) would two contra-rotating gyros give the potential for building a FF model yacht?

    Thank you for taking the time to read this.
     
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  3. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Nope. Two counterrotating gyroscopes will cancel each other out.
     
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  5. Confused2 Registered Senior Member

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    That was mercifully quick - saving me the humiliation of building the damn thing. This is a physics forum - do we want to go into how they cancel out?
     
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  7. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    Just as well, that would have probably been quite painful.
     
  8. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Beat me to it.
     
  9. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    Gyros should be adaptable to provide the stability that you need but not two opposing gyros that cancel themselves out, as was pointed out. If you have a gyro mounted in any orientation that the wind affects, this should do it, right?
     
  10. Confused2 Registered Senior Member

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    I'd like to make clear that analising was the result of a forum spell check and not something I would otherwise have contemplated.
     
  11. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Which you ... promptly ignored?

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  12. Confused2 Registered Senior Member

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    Unfortunately the torque doesn't just go away - it turns up somewhere else - as (in this case) sometimes a duck dive.
     
  13. Confused2 Registered Senior Member

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  14. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    I understand that but aren't property placed gyros doing the same thing as a larger keel?
     
  15. Confused2 Registered Senior Member

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    I am convinceable (<- spell check again) that the two gyros will be able to counteract each other - but you might need to throw some maths at it to convince me.
     
  16. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Naturally any additional equipment aboard a sailing vessel will impede its speed.
    It's worth experimenting - but I think you will have a tough time creating a gyro that is effective without costing more than it's worth in speed.

    Look at what high-end racers do. Nowadays, they are using canting keels.

    For a model yacht, this might get you more effect per unit weight. You might be able to get away with just a mechanical gravity-powered mechanism.


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    Last edited: Jul 30, 2019
  17. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Sure, if you don't mind the pitching moment they create.
     
  18. LaurieAG Registered Senior Member

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    Probably much easier to develop an automatic water ballast system as it does much the same thing.

    http://www.maximarine.com/waterballast.html
     
  19. Confused2 Registered Senior Member

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    Model yachts often operate in an unreliable wind (turbulent) - it would be difficult (impossible I think) to move water fast enough to prevent the yacht falling over the wrong way when the wind dropped. A fairly powerful servo with a lead weight on an arm is an option and would 'up there' with the gyroscope as a solution if the thread start wasn't "Model yachts and gyroscopes.".
    It has just occurred to me that space telescopes are 'pointed' by gyroscopes - it should be possible to 'point' (and maintain?) my yacht in any direction/attitude using the same technique. Gosub Hubble pointing.
     
  20. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    All inertial systems are maintained by gyros. Displays in aircraft use this technique. The only difference in your case is the density of water and how that affects the reaction time/forces.
     
  21. Confused2 Registered Senior Member

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    The intention here is that when the yacht rolls the gyroscope rolls with it - I (we) use the actual gyroscopic 'action' forces to counteract the roll.
     
  22. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    tensor equations
    ?

    suffice to say the width of a dual hull may help increase survivability of wind strength.
    there is requirement inside the craft to absorb wind pressure without exerting it into direct steerage.
    humans fill this gap

    some type of wind cock would likely help, however i am stumped to think of at the moment what type of mechanism and its capacitor material & mechanism to convey appropriate change conversion.

    it may well be easier with a larger model as the material becomes the median capacitor to what otherwise in smaller amounts and sizes becomes massive force shifts/changes.
     
  23. Confused2 Registered Senior Member

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