Modern technology - Why did it take so long?

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by superluminal, May 18, 2007.

  1. superluminal I am MalcomR Valued Senior Member

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    So,

    The ancient Romans, Greeks, Chinese, Aztecs, etc, had high civilization, aquaducts, agriculture, metals, and highly intelligent people. Why did it take thousands of years of such civilization and then BAM! Industrial revolution and high technology in an eyeblink?

    What societal forces caused this?
     
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  3. Oniw17 ascetic, sage, diogenes, bum? Valued Senior Member

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    More people probably(I have no idea).
     
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  5. timmbuktwo Registered Senior Member

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    "industrial revolution" is the key to technoligical advancement.
     
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  7. superluminal I am MalcomR Valued Senior Member

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    Me either. But it certainly begs the question, dosen't it?
     
  8. superluminal I am MalcomR Valued Senior Member

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    Right. But why such a long period when we had the tools and materials right in front of us?
     
  9. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Waiting for the steam engine to be discovered.

    "The wonderful progress of the present century is, in a very great degree, due to the invention and improvement of the steam engine, and to the ingenious application of its power to kinds of work that formerly taxed the physical energies of the human race."~Robert H. Thurston

    http://campus.udayton.edu/~hume/Steam/steam.htm
     
  10. timmbuktwo Registered Senior Member

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    Dark ages and Middle ages, too much time waisted on warfare.
     
  11. Communist Hamster Cricetulus griseus leninus Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, but why wasn't that invented until fairly recently? The Greeks could probably have accomplished one.
     
  12. dixonmassey Valued Senior Member

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    Are you insane? We all would be dead by now had Greek discovered a steam engine. Thanks whoever is there for Dark Ages.
     
  13. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    You could read the link. It gives the history.
     
  14. dixonmassey Valued Senior Member

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    Industrial age has not come out of nowhere, there was NO BAM. There were gradual advances in transportation, agriculture, sciences, etc., there were gradual social "advances", most important of them - rise of individualism, death of traditional communities and building hierarchy of wealth instead that of the birth.

    Industrial age was born long before steam engine was invented. Presumably it has began at the times when british nobility has decided to evict peasants and raise sheep instead. Thus surplus of cheap desperate work force was created to be exploited by the first capitalists, owners of first manufactures utilizing division of labor.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2007
  15. Carcano Valued Senior Member

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    The end of slavery might have had something to do with it...or perhaps it was an effect.
     
  16. Pandaemoni Valued Senior Member

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    The primitive Steam Engine is at least as old as Heron of Alexandria, who used them as part of his designs (mostly as curiosities or amusing "gadgets" of their day).

    In my opinion, the reasons for the advancement of technology are likely the result of a combination of factors. Some of it is dumb luck. You not only have to invent the steam engine, you need to realize their potential to do productive work. To some extent that requires you to have access to plentiful supplies of fuel (to keep them running) but also an understanding of the sorts of tasks that might be aided by such an engine. Newcomen's steam engine (and Watt's later on) were used as water pumps, particularly in mines. You needed to be aware of the problem of water collecting in mines for to begin the process of figuring out how to correct that problem.

    I suspect (as a BS off the top of my head hypothesis) that the real impetus for the industrial revolution was a combination of (i) social structures that allowed for the upward mobility of a broad range of the population (something ancient China lacked), (ii) the printing press and (iii) feedback.

    The printing press is what allowed knowledge to start spreading quickly, on those rare occasions that technological innovations were discovered, it was the vastly more efficient spread of information disseminated new technological, scientific and philosophical principles more widely, without having to transport the contraptions or experts themselves. There was a general increase in the level of education in Europe as a result, which meant there were more people with the technical knowledge needed to "invent" new technology. The more people, the more likely that genuine technological leaps will come about.

    As technology started to build up (and spread, thanks again to the printing press), economic productivity increased as did national wealth. Higher wealth levels gave the educated more capital and free time which they could dedicate to new (and bigger) scientific and technological research. Plus, the rapid increase in technology allowed for a great degree of interaction. In order to invent the steam powered water pump, you need to see both the steam engine and the water pump and combine and refine them. The more technology there is, the more interactions there are to explore.

    The odd thing is that printing press may have only come because Gutenberg failed in a venture to sell religious trinkets to pilgrims traveling to Aachen. Gutenberg evidently got the year wrong, and so there were no pilgrims. Under threat to repay the money he borrowed for the venture or else, he dreamt up the printing press. Or so the legend says. If true, that is a pretty random reason for so critical an advance in technology.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2007
  17. superluminal I am MalcomR Valued Senior Member

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    I beg to differ. The radical difference between the world of post industrial revolution and pre is blatant and obvious.
     
  18. superluminal I am MalcomR Valued Senior Member

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    I read it. Look at the table at the end. Almost 1700 years(!) between the demonstration of steam power and the first rudimentary practial application. Why?

    We were a horse and buggy species for almost all of our thousands of years of recorded history, up until less than 200 paltry years ago, then BAM! (yes, there was a big BAM sound) we became an internal combustion/jet engine/micro electronic/space travelling species. This is no trivial thing. Ther must have been some kind of dramatic phase change in our societies.
     
  19. one_raven God is a Chinese Whisper Valued Senior Member

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    Advancement is exponential.
    One discovery/breakthrough often leads to dozens more.
     
  20. superluminal I am MalcomR Valued Senior Member

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    Agreed. But nobody, for 1700 years+ realized this? All of the clever people were on vacation?

    Did not the ancients mine and need to move water to irrigate and supply their cities? The romans had aqueducts. They also had plentiful fuel, metals, and a need to move water.

    Agreed.

    I still see a puzzle as to why we stagnated technologically for so long.
     
  21. one_raven God is a Chinese Whisper Valued Senior Member

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    Welcome back, by the way.
    I just noticed you.
     
  22. superluminal I am MalcomR Valued Senior Member

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    Yes. But I still have a hard time accepting the "luck" or the "societal impetus" theories. Humans are curious innovators with a strong urge to improve things and make profit. No one saw the potential for this once the first steam driven device was demonstrated? Some of them must have exploded. The power and potential was obvious.
     
  23. superluminal I am MalcomR Valued Senior Member

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    Thanks. I just noticed myself(!) :m:

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