Morality and burden upon society

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by timojin, Jun 30, 2017.

  1. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    I don't have a problem with it. Ethically, morals are primarily concerned with human behavior.
     
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  3. birch Valued Senior Member

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    Yet you have a problem with the more shallow bigotry of restroom issues in another thread.

    So where do your morals start? Evidently i was alluding to the very fact people also predate on eachother.
     
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  5. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    I find bigotry against humans to be more serious than exploiting animals for food.
    With human beings.
    Sorry I misunderstood, of course that's usually immoral.
     
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  7. birch Valued Senior Member

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    it's strange if you've known evil, you can realize that good is even more of an ephemeral concept that cannot be counted or depended on. it's almost imaginary. you know that evil you always can count on, which is a nasty dichotomy. it doesn't mean you embrace evil, it's just that you know good is something that is not a guarantee either. i think this is part of why people say there is no such thing as good or evil except they have takent it to complete sell-out status.

    the dynamic doesn't seem so good. it's as if evil is the deepest truth (even if not your own) because of it's damaging proportions so it's the side you have to pay the most attention to and be wary of. good is benign or further improving so there is nothing to be wary of.

    there was this woman who had an nde experience and she said she saw many different universes, some amazingly beautiful and some terribly frightening and evil. hypothetically, if that were true and there was an afterlife, and if i could choose i would opt to not exist at all. i wouldn't even choose to exist in the nicest one. i wouldn't want to play this game at all as it seems wrong or false. i don't see truth or good as authentic if it can be damaged. to me, that must mean evil/darkness is the predominant truth overall. i see it as it should never exist at all anywhere but it does and that's the most disturbing truth of all to me.
     
  8. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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  9. Michael 345 Next mythical choc bunnies for mystic who died Valued Senior Member

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    Explained in a nutshell

    Of course atheist can shorten it down a lot with a "I don't believe in god, objective things happen which we assign arbitrary subjective labels. Things just are"

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  10. river

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    Morality is a burden on society , as it should be .
     
  11. birch Valued Senior Member

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    Thats not the complete truth. Lifeforms are the greatest threat to other lifeforms. In fact, a lifeform can have malicious intent to carry out a damaging action against another consciously. Though some natural occurences are indifferent, thats not really the basis of the problem of evil.

    This also is expounded on with religion about freewill but anothers freewill does not just affect them but can affect others, even be purposefully directed at others.

    Not everything people do is arbitrary just as those effects are not always arbitrary. A brain has the capacity for motive, intent as well as knowing cause and effect which is why certain actions are carried out willfully and knowingly.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2017
  12. Michael 345 Next mythical choc bunnies for mystic who died Valued Senior Member

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    No matter what position on the sliding scale between good____________bad you place someone's actions (the intent is immaterial), someone else can put the EXACT SAME ACTION at a different location

    They are arbitrary, non fixed value judgements

    If the whole world got together and everyone was given a situation to vote on by standing on a 10,000klm line between good___________bad (feel free to extend the ends out if you wish) with the value judgements marked between the ends the largest clusters would be either side of the centre and taper off towards the ends

    Graph wise you would have a bell curve

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  13. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    IMO, that is a purely subjective outlook on the real world.

    From an objective viewpoint, that is not necessarily so. Natural selection can be very bad for some non-evil organisms and unlimited growth (good) eventually can produce bad results.

    Example; Since the beginning, 95% of all life has gone extinct regardless if they were benign (good) or harmful (bad).

    Check out prof emeritus, Albert Bartlett on Youtube.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2017
  14. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Good is more common than evil.
    "Purity" is not necessarily a good.
    Evil can be damaged - it's usually self-damaging, even, to the point of self-destruction.

    Eat or be eaten - Law of Hell
    Eat and be eaten - Law of Heaven.
     
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  15. birch Valued Senior Member

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    nothing of the kind but it's one way to cope to believe that.
     
  16. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    The fact of the matter. There's so much of it that even great evil can hide in it, for a while.
    It's taken for granted, is all. One can cultivate gratitude, as an exercise.

    There's a custom, in some forms of meditation practice, to thank one's seat cushion after sitting. Or the floor itself.
     
  17. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    The Stockholm syndrome.
     
  18. river

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    What evidence shows that evil is more common than Good ?
     
  19. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Seems to me that over long periods of time it averages out to a perfect balance. After all natural selection is probabilistic and effectively neutral in scope and function.
     
  20. river

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    Good and evil is about , averages and probabilities ????
     
  21. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    What makes you think good and evil are not subject to "natural selection"?

    Even from your standpoint of Christianity (my impression of your belief system, correct me if I am wrong), Christ's sacrifice by bad people, brought Christianity into the world, and as atheist, even I will happily admit that Christianity has helped form certain good moral standards which now have endured for some 2000 years.

    For every action, eventually there is a corrective reaction if taken the "long view" of how things work themselves out naturally. Nature itself is always striving for balance, in all ways.

    South Africa, which was run by white Dutch and British oligarchs, eventually was returned to the people it belongs to. Same as India, a once British colony. Communism which was ruled with ruthless diregard for peoples rights fell eventually. Nothing lasts forever, back and forth change is the dynamics of human actions and eventual reactions by the majority who carry the weight of injustice.

    Slavery in the US (which was Law) was eventually corrected. Denying voting rights to women (Law) was eventually corrected.

    As long as the Constitution remains, things will work themselves out, eventually, IMO.
    I still believe in "no taxation without representation". That is a powerful "quid pro quo" statement. If millions of people stop paying taxes, things will change in a hurry.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2017
  22. Michael 345 Next mythical choc bunnies for mystic who died Valued Senior Member

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    I would contend there is no such animal (such a thing as "balance") in nature

    In the early days of the earth when it was just a hot collection of rocks. Along with a poisonous atmosphere?
    What would be the balance for each of those conditions?
    What would be the balance for conditions now?
    Lots of salt and other minerals being washed into the seas now?
    What concentrations of each of the minerals will bring the seas into balance?

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  23. river

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    My STAND POINT has NOTHING TO DO WITH ANY OF THE ABRAHAMIC RELIGIONS . NONE ZERO , AS IN ZERO .

    Here is the thing , we tend to spread the web of morality based on those in power , upon the common people . That is a mistake .

    The common people , in which I include ; simple people, those that are less educated than most ; along with those that are educated .

    It is those in power that tend to dictate our morality it seems .
     

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