Oh my, IMO << see that POF, this is ALL the same kind of crap, except the target audience is older..music made to make money, nothing else. (most of it anyways) I'm not sayin I don't like any of it either...just that I am aware of it's purpose. I realize I have been sucked into the media music machine, and actually like some of it. I don't at all think any of it has a meaning...my gosh lol.. The purpose of Alanis Morissette (like 5 years ago now, when she was actually a "pop" star) was to seel cds to young girls/middle aged women. And any infered meaning was there for that purpose, to lure the target audience in. the same goes for almost all of what you have listed here. (different target audiences of course) Alternative (when that genre was created a few years back) WAS the pop music of the day..it's what people were rallying against, much as you are now, against todays incarnations. And I do agree, they should have banned most of the Korn, Blink 182, Alanis Morissette, The Offspring back then...whew.....I would have been one happy camper. I just looks to me like you were just as sucked in by the music machine as anyone is today, its just different bands, and a different time frame. oh and mpfunk, improvisational music IS music, thats what music is all about, creating, not pakaging the same song the same way everytime....nice to see someone with a similar view.
Hmmm.. I too feel 'strongly' about this topic, but I think it's important never to take something so seriously that you end up needing medication. I agree, subjectively, with the Princess' sentiment but remember we're talking aesthetics here and in the realm of aesthetics, the eye of the beholder reigns supreme. To date, no-one has formulated a logically consistent argument detailing an a priori foundation of beauty. Some would argue that Spinoza did but I disagree. Due to the fact that we're talking about taste and valuation here, you're always going to find that there is 'crap' out there. Furthermore, it's likely that what you find 'good' and 'artful' today will one day be 'crap' to you. I find most of contemporary 'alt' music to be quite mechanical and unoriginal; crap one might say. Nevertheless, some of it still appeals to me. Stop confusing art and taste. For example, you claim Offspring to be artfully good. I hate to tell you this but artfully speaking, they're nothing but a riffing rip-off of Stiff Little Fingers. But they can still appeal to you....... The Art of music has been around much longer than you. Your tastes have developed over time and were built upon numerous factors. Both of these are relevant to your taste in music, but remember to keep the two concepts apart. You'll be much happier. The Police rule IMO Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
OK Yes I totally agree with what you said ( I can't be bothered to argue at all anymore!) I have been sucked in, but at least what I listen to is actually good music!Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Just a list for now Just a list of cool music for now; I'll offer deeper thoughts later .... * Floater (http://www.floatermusic.com) ... my current absolute favorite band. * Queens of the Stone Age (members of Kyuss, Screaming Trees, and others) ... super-heavy * Wellwater Conspiracy: The other night, for ten minutes, I saw three powerful 90's bands represented: Monster Magnet (John McBain, who played on Spine of God, then the heaviest album I'd heard; Soundgarden (Matt Cameron, Ben Shepard--the latter also played in Hater with McBain); and Pearl Jam (Eddie Vedder, who is a recent addition to the lineup, who sings on the newest album, and whose status in the band is, as yet, unconfirmed.) * Mudhoney (perhaps the best punk band alive) * Melvins I can't describe how heavy this groove is. * Radiohead I finally got to see live; the Gorge show was amazing. * Brian Wilson: the best pop musician ever still can knock 'em out. I'm informed that the Gorge performance of Heroes & Villains is reportedly the first time ever that Mr Wilson has performed this song live. * Boiled in Lead: A personal favorite of mine, from Minneapolis. For those who know the origin of my user name, BiL has significant connections with the Tiassa's author, including former bands, songwriting credits, and even an Lp to one of Mr Brust's books, The Gypsy, written with Megan Lindholm. * Tanita Tikaram: Perhaps the most consistently mellow among my album collection, there's not much to be said for Ms Tikaram, except that pop music has some work to do to catch up. * Twisted Sister/Widowmaker ... Dee Snider: Laugh if you will, but if you cut away the confetti, shoulder pads, and bad hair and makeup, there's a tremendous degree of rock and roll songwriting present. One can slow these songs down and bang them out acoustically and still have a respectable set: the songs work in various contexts, and that flexibility is a key to their success. * King Diamond: Again, chuckle all you want, but this guy got me through high school while the rest of my schoolmates were drooling over Axl Rose and the tight-pantalooned dude in Def Leppard. * The Defunct List: Pearl Jam, Mother Love Bone, Screaming Trees, Nirvana, Soundgarden, The Seeds, Styx (let's not mention Edge of the Century, please?), The Beach Boys (Mike Love tour notwithstanding), Helloween, Anthrax (Belladonna chapter 1--through Killer Bees), Savatage, The Pink Floyd, Sisters of Mercy * The honorable mentions: KISS (that should be apparent), AC/DC (again, apparent), Paul Simon, Peter Gabriel, Yungchen Lhamo, Mari Boine Pierson, Flash Girls, Phat City Smokehouse, Elton John, Muddy Waters, John Lee Hooker, Roger Waters, David Gilmour, Tommy Shaw, Band of Susans, Martha and the Muffins, Ramones ... at this point the list goes on. * Classical composers? Rachmaninoff, Mozart ... I'm developing a taste for Mahler, but I don't devote a whole lot of time and effort to collecting classical music. * Jazz? One of the difficulties of naming jazz musicians is that the only ones I know well are the ones I know. I'm not huge into national jazz acts, but rather the local ones. Yvonne Cannon is a heck of a vocalist from Seattle, and Emmanuel Lewis was a great standards combo. Rockin' Teenage Combo is our foremost experimental jazz team up here, partially in limbo as of a few months ago, between drummers. In the end, it's all music. I used to be a full-blown metalhead, but the contrived spandex image eventually got to me as much as it did everyone else. As a member of that heavy metal age, let me officially apologize to all for the Onyx/Biohazard single, and the resulting movement that has eventually watered down to present Kid Rock as quality musicianship. Contrived is also my objection to the commercialization of format music; there is little, in principle, different 'twixt blues and country, except that one is a true expression and the other a commercial consideration. Country rings hollow to me, and contrivance is often a factor in whether I can stomach music or not. If your album blows because you missed while trying to pioneer an idea, fine; we all learn from hideous mistakes. But if your album blows because you think it sounds like it'll sell a million copies, then save us all the trouble and get a CPA. I'll give the deeper considerations more thought; I haven't come up with anything so far to succinctly summarize my stance on the pop culture. thanx, Tiassa Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Becareful of such unbridaled hate I partially agree with your post that all pop music is shit. Then again I don't. THAT'S WHAT THEY WANT YOU TO THINK. People treat music and music genres like their religions. Now if you rebel against pop, then it makes you a more devoted rock fan, which helps them sell records. (Vicious cycle). If it fulfills your emotional need at the time, weather that be happiness (poppy dance music) or anger (hard rock/metal) than that's fine. Music should be taken for what it is, a simple release of emotions. The only problem I have is when artists or bands have been CREATED by record labels to make money. If they have been found and have genuine talent than fine. I don't think theres anything massively wrong with making money, unless it comes at the sacrifice of artistic expression. Relax everyone music should be enjoyed, if you don't like, don't listen, that simple. P.S. I was listening to the Beatles' "Yesterday", while typing this line.
Wow.... Tiassa, Glad someone mentioned the sisters of mercy.... Ever had a chance to hear "the mission"???? ..IMHO -- cool band As far as pop music goes......musicians need to make money too...these days everything's a business and not all art needs to be "everlasting".... let's face it people if it's so bad why is it so popular?? and let's not forget if you don't like it turn off the sound and just watch young britney shakin' her booty (there's good in everything Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! ) it works for me Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Good reply Rambler, good replyPlease Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Slow down good music is anything you appreciate. For example, I like Bjork. but I also like more mainstream music. Yes, bands like Nsync and singers like christina aquilera are crap at the moment' it is so very obvious in the fact that they sound bad. However, good mature pop music like Celine Dion and such, has a meaning, because of the person that sings it and how they make it relate to themselves. If you're an honest music with an evident talent, not only good looks, you are not crap, but just a person singing what you want to sing. Most singers are doing that, in their own way.
I'm glad to see Tool finally mentioned in a music forum when talking about it as an art form. In my opinion Tool are the only band around at the moment who do it totally for there love of music as an art form. They even went through 2 or more years of legal proceedings to prevent the record company from tarnishing there sound. My hat goes of to you Princess, I don't care if its okay to make pop cause it sells and little kids love it. Music is an ART form, it shouldn't be made into a commodity, but unfortunatley the worlds full of apathetic people who won't do shit to prevent this pollution.
Hello Neb from Oz. Welcome to Sciforums. One of the truely unique things about music is that it appeals to everyone and everyone's tastes are different. So what is bubblegum and commerical manfactured music (The Monkeys comes first to mind) is one persons gotta have and anothers can't stand. One thing about it, no matter what your loves and hates, as you grow older you're tastes change. You become more discriminating. That coupled with your life experiences influnances what you like. So because you or I can not stand something doesn't mean that there is not room or a place for it.
Yeah I know,but I've lost all respect for the music industry for corrupting bands. eg:Limp Bizkits first album 3 dollar bill was raw and heavy, it sounded unique to them, now there more commercialised than a Big Mac and there music has suffered,they r bland and unoriginal now, its so sad. Creed, my god, hasn't the record company and fans of these plagerisers realised that they sound exactly like Pearl Jam on there albums 10 an vs but with religous overtones.
what i protest against isnt pop, its unorigionality - i agree with neb, i think that the biggest problem assosciated with the commercialization of music isn't that its not 'good' but alot of it is taken, made more 'acceptable' and profit making and then released, rather than the pure expression through whichever genre someone might like. and princess, the offspring? please - they are the epitome of a sellout band, the kings of trading their art for the dollar sign. this is why im into bands like radiohead, who dont change their music for anyone but themselves, and stop trying to appeal to the mass market of 'fans' any particular band has created. fans follow, musicians lead, not the other way around. oh, and mpfunk, im gonna 'join the bandwagon' so to speak and agree with you that improvisational music is music in its purest form...
I also think some of the "music" being made today, as well as befor, is garbage. My ears shudder when rap, grundge, hip hop, punk, death metal and a few other types or styles are being played somewhere I pass by. I enjoy good classic rock and roll , classical,jazz,new age,some funk, rythem and blues,blues,Irish music, Arabic music,Chinese music, Japanese ,Tuva throat singers, country, bluegrass, chamber music, some operas, some heavy metal, and a few others. That shows I try to enjoy many different types of what I like to call "good" music to me. There are those who won't listen to half of the types of music I listen to and that is their right not to do so. I just really dislike all this crappy music being blasted away on boom boxes or 5000 watt steros inside cars that I have to drive near. Please turn that stuff down so I can enjoy my music inside my car without being drowned out by other crap that they play.
Anything POP, is bound to appeal to the lowest common denominator, therefore, anything truly POP will only appeal to you at times that you are moving through levels of ignorance into enlightenment (culturally speaking) and eventually, as you leave ignorance well behind, POP becomes meaningless POOP (designed for people with shit for brains) and it shouldn't bother you.
Young people listen to pop because its happy and easy listening and set a good mood, they dont want to listen to musik to "analyze" it. Now why people like rock i dont understand, to me it has no beat or rythm, the singing sucks, and it feels empty, but thats just me.
Actually, I take back most of what I said before, because at the end of the day it's quality that counts and there's good and bad quality in all forms of music and art culture, as there is in everything else. I guess it's easier to pick on POP music, because that is what is mainly promoted by the mass enterntainment media and is therefore in the frontline.
pop was created for that large group of people called "the masses" mindless people who would buy the new "Now Thats What I Call Music Vol. 25" without even glancing at the track listing. forget this genre, it is pure money driving it, as Princess mentioned. 7 yr old listening to 50 cent rap about guns, ghettos, and clubs- while 12 yr olds even got record deals themselves rapping about pimping women?? hahaha it makes me laugh, and you should laugh too Princess, instead of become angry. yes its sad, but this is minor when compared to situations that yield far more concrete and long-lasting effects~ music was created from the soul, and it reaches its specific listeners with its message. all genres are like channels, with everyone tuning into the one they like. furthermore, music encapsulates energy within it, from the energy from the person who composed the beat to the energy in the vocals of the song (if it has words) this energy is transferred, relaying the messages and feelings to those who fancy the music. music has purpose, and it reaches who it is supposed to- that is why it may seem that the songs lyrics are talking directly to you, or it may seem the song was made specifically for you, because its message is meant for you. the world works in mysterious ways, music is one of them. and this is where i can see your anger towards pop Princess. but realize that there are millions of people out there who are, for lack of a better word, simpletons. they dont have the time or never had the chance (this would be the young children) to develop a taste in music, therefore they easily accept Pop music - since it is what is mostly shown on TV and heard on the Radio, which is what they are exposed to more of the time. so, we must accept Pop Music much like we should accept people of other religions. it is all relevant to the person themself. Ignoring Pop music would probably be the best way to accept it Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! keep on rockin, your bands are good, and although i am inclined to Trance and House music, i still listen to Rock, Rap (the REAL Rap, underground Hip Hop) a few classics and even some classical. And if a POP song comes out that i kind of like, ill even get that one too! I listen to alot of different stuff, i wonder if theres other people who do the same? i mean , i listen to all these genres: (in order of intensity) - Trance - House - Acid - Techno - Ambient - 80's - Hip Hop/Rap - Rock - 70's - Classical I mean i have over 1,200 songs just on my PC alone, and they range from Lime in the Cocanut, Son of a Preacherman, to Sleepwalk- to Idioteque - to Paint it Black (rock version) to ambient sounds of Aphex Twin. But my CD library is almost all Trance and Rave music- maybe because ive lost all of my older RAP cds, when i used to listen to rap bout 8 years ago. as you can see i am a music buff- its because music is energy!!
well said zonabi, add a few of cosmictraveler genres, remove some of yours, and it pictures my musik taste quite well. Actualy i dont realy care what genre or who made the musik, if i like it i get it music is energy
You're missing a lot then. and PofFunk... I'm pretty sure all of the bands you listed are on major labels- meaning: you're fueling the destruction. Those bands you listed are all pretty fucking terrible in my opinion- except Radiohead: there is definate depth to their music. I guess this is Sciforums after all.. sci.
