Muslims promote Sharia law. Why do Christians not promote their law?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Greatest I am, Jul 31, 2013.

  1. Robittybob1 Banned Banned

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    Well then (slightly off topic) but what Law did Jesus have to follow to become the Christ?

    As I recall they usual combine the Law and the Prophets together, so Jesus fulfilled the Law and the Prophets. Not just the law, but the Law and the Prophets. So what does that mean to you?
     
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  3. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    Just as ridiculous the second time around.

    Regards
    DL
     
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  5. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    How many Christians want to abort in Texas and why are they fighting their own people?

    That is only one law. Are Christians trying to have their best laws passed?
    Like stoning fornicators and unruly children.

    Stoning fornicating Christians would go a long way in easing Christian abortion numbers. Right?

    Regards
    DL
     
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  7. Robittybob1 Banned Banned

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    This article "Today’s big question: what does it mean that Christ fulfilled the Law?" expresses an opinion similar to mine.
    http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2011/03/02/fulfilled-the-law

    OK I can see how that makes a lot of Christians feel uncomfortable because without the 10 commandments what have we got?
    That is where the new commandment comes in. We are to Love one another, and when that is applied you will more than cover all the aspects of the 10 commandments, in fact you may work on the Sabbath without sin. It is no longer a matter of carrying on with the old (just in case Jesus story isn't true). To put your heart and mind on the line, and say in your spirit; "Lord write your new laws on my heart and mind please", takes a little courage for you wonder what will happen next? Will it hurt like being tattooed? Have I taken a step too far? Could I be wrong? These are the questions that you will ask yourself for you want to be under the law, but the right one for sure.
     
  8. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    When Constantine bought the then Orthodox catholic church, he pais to have the Gnostics who did not convert killed and burnt most of their gospels. He did the same with Christians who followed some of the other books that they did not include in the canon.

    The victors write the history and Constantine's new church did not care how much blood was spilled to write it.

    Hundreds of mystery schools were destroyed or disbanded.

    It happens that I call myself a Gnostic Christian and esoteric ecumenist and yes, Gnostics are not organized at this point in time.

    Regards
    DL
     
  9. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    This type of thing is okay to say on here?
    This is not right.
    What a terrible thing to say.

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  10. Robittybob1 Banned Banned

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    I won't repeat myself again. You should take up art and you will see what I mean.
     
  11. Robittybob1 Banned Banned

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    @DL - What aspect of Christianity do you follow to call yourself a Christian? How can you call yourself Gnostic? (Gnostic implies gnosis, what are your experiences?) That was a big surprise to me!
     
  12. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    He didn't. He became Christ through his memorable and remarkable teachings. There was no form to fill out or boxes to check.

    It means:

    1) Jesus didn't want to get arrested so he said what he had to to avoid it as long as possible.
    2) There was some pretty heavy re-editing afterwards to make it seem like he was absolutely, definitely, no question the prophet that everyone said was coming. (During the time of his life, of course, few people thought that.)
     
  13. Robittybob1 Banned Banned

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    I nearly agree with you, well on one point at least. No one in their right mind would want to be scourged with the cat of nine tails and then be crucified. That is not something to look forward to. Suicide bombers allow themselves to be blown-up but I think the thought of it being instantaneous helps them.
    Crucifixion went on all day sometimes. It was a cruel torture.

    He had enough followers that recognized his potential.
    When you say "He became Christ through his memorable and remarkable teachings." I sense you have not really understood it yet. It is when the Holy Spirit came upon him, that is when he became the Christ. Well that's how I look at it.
     
  14. quinnsong Valued Senior Member

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    Well Greatest I am we do have something in common I considered myself a Gnostic before I became agnostic. Not much going on as far as any organized efforts in the communities I lived in at the time but I did so enjoy the mystics. I reread the Gospel of Thomas again a couple of years ago, the book was gathering dust on the bookshelf and I found that I still had a soft spot for the Gnostic Gospels.
     
  15. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Agreed! Which was why he tried to avoid it as long as possible by agreeing with religious and secular laws. The Gospel is pretty clear on people trying to 'trick' him into speaking against those laws so he could be arrested.

    If he lived exactly the same life, died exactly the same way, rose from the dead at the same time, had the same parents, spoke the same words, had the same following - but did not have the Holy Spirit come upon him - would you still read his words and have them guide your life?
     
  16. Robittybob1 Banned Banned

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    OK we agree on the first part so put that aside and tackle the later bit (the bit being quoted).

    Well the question is "If the Holy Spirit [had not] come upon him - would you still read his words and have them guide your life?"
    And the quick answer is "NO"
    Well my argument goes like this - who wrote about the Christ? Did he write about himself? No he didn't and it was the fact that John the Baptist recognized Jesus as the Messiah and then turned his followers over to being followers of Jesus that we got to know about Jesus at all.

    Without John's confirmation (which was a vital part of the fulfilling the prophets) Jesus would not have been the Christ or known as the Christ.

    The Gospels make this pretty clear I'm sure (I'm thinking it is clearly spelled out in the Gospel of St. John).
    Unfortunately it is a bit longer than I had hoped.
    http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John 1&version=NIV

    John chapter 1 verses 15 - 40.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2013
  17. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    I agree.

    I may have over reacted to our friends anti-abortion stance.
    I will have to be more careful when being drawn into the moral low grounds.
    That was part of my tough love coming out.

    There is a lot of irony in the abortion issue for Christians. On the one hand, they are against it, but their dogma says that most who are born will end in hell. Logically, if we just go by the numbers, that means that the more we abort, the more get to heaven.

    A stupid situation all around but, strangely, anyone who loves his unborn neighbors would choose to insure they go to heaven and would abort them.

    I show the logic and math but would never recommend such foolishness in real life.

    Regards
    DL
     
  18. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    Attacking an unworthy God like bible God does not make me an atheist. It just makes me one who knows which Gods should be rejected as inferior.

    Mine is not so much a matter of following Christianity as it is a matter of using the Christian bible the way it was intended to be used. To open discussion and talks about God. That is why all the contradictions are in it. That is how one seeks God and Gnostic, even those who have found God, will continue to seek after raising the bar of excellence. Otherwise it would be idol worship of what was found.

    My personal experience and what made me take up that label was unique but not particularly startling.

    The Godhead I know in a nutshell.
    I was a skeptic till the age of 39.
    I then had an apotheosis and later branded myself an esoteric ecumenist and Gnostic Christian. Gnostic Christian because I exemplify this quote from William Blake.

    “Both read the Bible day and night, But thou read'st black where I read white.”

    This refers to how Gnostics tend to reverse, for moral reasons, what Christians see in the Bible. We tend to recognize the evil ways of O T God where literal Christians will see God’s killing as good. Christians are sheep where Gnostic Christians are goats.
    This is perhaps why we see the use of a Jesus scapegoat as immoral, while theists like to make Jesus their beast of burden. An immoral position.

    During my apotheosis, something that only lasted 5 or 6 seconds, the only things of note to happen was that my paradigm of reality was confirmed and I was chastised to think more demographically. What I found was what I call a cosmic consciousness. Not a new term but one that is a close but not exact fit.

    I recognize that I have no proof. That is always the way with apotheosis.
    This is also why I prefer to stick to issues of morality because no one has yet been able to prove that God is real and I have no more proof than they for the cosmic consciousness.

    The cosmic consciousness is not a miracle working God. He does not interfere with us save when one of us finds it. Not a common thing from what I can see. It is a part of nature and our next evolutionary step.

    I tend to have more in common with atheists who ignore what they see as my delusion because our morals are basically identical. Theist tend not to like me much as I have no respect for literalists and fundamentals and think that most Christians have tribal mentalities and poor morals.

    I am rather between a rock and a hard place but this I cannot help.

    I am happy to be questioned on what I believe but whether or not God exists is basically irrelevant to this world for all that he does not do, and I prefer to thrash out moral issues that can actually find an end point. The search for God is never ending when you are of the Gnostic persuasion. My apotheosis basically says that I am to discard whatever God I found, God as a set of rules that is, not idol worship it but instead, raise my bar and seek further.

    My apotheosis also showed me that God has no need for love, adoration or obedience. He has no needs. Man has dominion here on earth and is to be and is the supreme being.

    Regards
    DL
     
  19. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    Any thinker will.
    Myths are always good for thought if one knows they are myths that try to tickle the esoteric thinking in us.

    Here is my best advice these days and somewhat like the path I inadvertently took to apotheosis.
    If I had known of this sooner, I might have found the Godhead sooner.

    [video=youtube;FdSVl_HOo8Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y[/video]

    Regards
    DL
     
  20. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    It is so tragic, how man has perverted "religion" to suit his own desire for power and greed.

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    (and continues to do so, today!)

    And no worries on the above. No one can say you are not passionate with your beliefs. This is a good thing.
    And I will work on being ummm...less sensitive.

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    Sorry, my last comment was meant to be placed here ...


    Regarding Gnosticism. I'm thoroughly intrigued and want to learn more. I would say upon reading about it in a bit more depth, my worldview and view of God, seem to align with it. Almost naturally, if that makes sense. I'm glad you have shared all this about yourself because it helps to understand your views when I run across them, here.
     
  21. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,994
    Some murdered, some dissipated and scattered, some converted at swordpoint.

    There is a common presumption that conversion by force does not work. It does, and one need look no farther than the pious Catholic red tribes of Mexico or the staunchly Protestant descendents of plantation slaves in the US for illustration. The original adults might be able to hang on psychologically, but their children are raised in immersion.

    And so I do not share the optimism of some, that Islamic law is a passing phase only kept in place by a need for resistance to outside oppression. Sharia law is totalitarian, and such tyranny can get a grip essentially permanent, at least in terms of human lifespans. The millenium-long grip of Christian law on European society was broken by chance, it seems to me - the discovery of new continents and repeated near destruction of old societies by plague chief among them. People got some elbow room they are unlikely to ever see again.
     
  22. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Right. But that's what I am saying. Let's say John the Baptist DID recognize him as the Messiah. (Say he made a mistake.) And everything else in Jesus's life - from the immaculate conception as reported, to his rising from the dead, from his acknowledgement by John the Baptist as the Messiah - was exactly the same. Would you still believe?
     
  23. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    One of the people selected by the Vatican to study the dead sea scrolls, John Allegro, ended up a Gnostic after doing his work. Pissed the Vatican right off.

    He did a series that is worth listening to. It took more than one sitting but I picked up some good info.

    [video=youtube;tnvEHObMMH4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnvEHObMMH4[/video]

    Regards
    DL
     

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