My argument against Pascal's Wager

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by garbonzo, Apr 6, 2012.

  1. garbonzo Registered Senior Member

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    I know this has been covered many times, and you guys probably have a firm grasp on the matter. This is my thinking on the matter, though. Take it as like a blog post. Many bloggers blog about the same subject, but there are different points mentioned in each. Hopefully it makes sense and is insightful.

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    I used to reason like that also when I came to know the errors in the Bible. It is a well known thing to atheists called Pascal's Wager, but it has many flaws. It lasted about a month. It seems you may be in that phase, also. Here is my current philosophy on that matter:

    I am searching for the truth. That is my sole intention and will always be my intention, up until I die. About everything I see fit. That's what's great about the internet. You can see both sides of the argument and pick one. There are many errors and contradictions in the Bible. I realize a lot of so called contradictions can be explained away by apologists, but there are still some left. You will also see that the Bible is not scientifically sound, and it seems to have borrowed a lot of things handed down from the very earliest of religions. In my mind, there is no way the Bible can be true, because I have researched it myself and came to that conclusion. I welcome debate with everyone who thinks they have the answer, and I am truly curious to see how they would reason on that matter or if it even makes sense. I have debated with a few open minded religious people and have won all of the ones that aren't on-going. Winning a debate only strengthens my resolves. If I ever lost a debate on the basics of the Bible, I would become a believer again. That is all that is needed. One loss.

    I think subconsciously, since growing up religious, my brain is like a steering wheel of a car that needs an alignment. Always pulling to the left or the right. My brain is always pulling to the religious side of me, because I want to feel that is right, subconsciously. Although consciously my life is happy, and I look forward to a good life ahead of me, and couldn't be more content. I am even happier than when I believed, a lot of pressure of my shoulders. But I still want to debate with anyone about religion, because I feel that need. To help people think and reason for themselves and help them when I didn't have any help. And also to prove to myself that this is the right course. I don't want to miss anything. I am kind of a perfectionist in certain things, and I want to make sure I haven't missed anything, you know? So I am certainly open minded if there is a way to explain everything that doesn't make sense in the Bible, which just doesn't seem possible, you know?

    So knowing that about me, I am trying to tell you that I am a sincere individual who is seeking the truth. I am sure you are, too. Now if you were a kind a loving God, would you send me to hell because I firmly believed what I was doing was the right thing? Searching for the truth... hell for you! Doing what you think is right... hell for you! Why would I believe in a hateful God like that anyway? Why would a God fill his book with errors and contradictions anyway? That sure is some God.

    If there was a loving God who has a plan for an afterlife for humans, then I am sure I will be there and my questions will be answered accordingly. So, actually, it is a win/win for me. It is a better win/win for me than those who "believe", because I get to do whatever I want and still get an afterlife, whereas you have to go to church every sunday and be prude and all the other baggage that comes with religion. Kind of like the parable Jesus related. About a farm hand that worked for 5 hours or so because that was the time slot the farmer had available and the farm hand that worked 10 hours or so both getting the SAME amount of pay. Why? Because that's fair. Just like it was out of the farm hand that worked 5 hour's control, it is out of atheists control that we search and yearn for the truth. "God" made us that way, did he not? Out of our control. So a loving God would give us the same benefits as those who "believe". Win/win, wouldn't you say? (Let us not forget that I am saying this on the belief that the Bible is not inspired of God, sincerely. And this is a hypothetical. I am not blatantly disregarding Jesus or God, even though I know he real (which I don't think he is).)

    Why would a God ask us only to believe as some religions or religious people teach, anyway? "The only thing you need to do is believe!" Why? What is the reasoning behind that? What is the difference to God between a believer who murders to a non-believer that murders people? Or between a believer that donates 50% of their income to charity as opposed to a non-believer that does that same? Why would there be any difference? It doesn't make sense.

    Here is another thing. Knowing what I know about the Bible. Knowing what I know about the Quran. Knowing that there are errors and contradictions in both of these books or at the very least just doesn't have any evidence of inspiration to back it up... any so called holy book for that matter, knowing this... does not this put all of these books on LEVEL playing grounds? There are no different to each other in this context. If there is a holy book that says flying pigs created the earth and we are under the control of invisible dragons, it would be on level playing field as the Bible. Why? Because there is no evidence to back that up. So why not believe that? Why not believe the Quran? Why pick whatever you are choosing to pick? It would be a completely random pick. You might as well blind fold yourself, spin in circles, and point. You would come up with the same thing contextually. What makes your book so different? Nothing. (again, contextually) The same can be said for religion. What makes your religion so different? They are all the same contextually. Context being that they all believe in a holy book that has no evidence of it's inspiration.

    If Christianity didn't exist and you were brought up a Muslim, you would believe in Allah as God instead of Christ under that reasoning, right?

    Point made.

    There is no need to look forward to something after death.... That would be like looking forward to death, which I don't think is natural (but what is natural? who knows). When you die, it will be quick (I mean that moment when you actually die, not leading up to it), there is no in-between living and dead, lol. So there will be no time to THINK about what is going to happen at death. Because most likely you won't know you are going to die unless you actually do. I mean, I know you can be in a lot of pain or "feel" you are going to die, but you don't actually KNOW. Even in front of a firing squad, the bullet could miss, or whatever. (seen that in a movie once)

    I have heard that you are conscious seconds after a decapitations, but you will barely have time to process that your head is off your body, much less that you are going to be dead in a few seconds and where you will go, lol.

    So what I am trying to say is that you could say hope for the future, but we always will have hope for the future right up until we are dead and unconscious probably. Belief in God helps some through concentration camps and the such, but you could have hope that you will make it out of the situation instead... it would be the same thing. Think about a situation that you KNOW 100% is futile? Your fate is inevitable. I don't think there are any....

    Framed and imprisoned for life even though you are innocent? In the case that whoever framed you is really powerful and there is no chance you will be released, the economy could fail and prisoners released, a bomb could hit the prison or something, who knows. Prison break anyone? lol Aliens? Come on, there is always hope! Why is there a need for an afterlife?

    Regardless, even if there is a need, why does it have to be heaven or hell? It could be reincarnation, or inception, a host of other things. Aliens?

    Why believe in something with no evidence? You know? Why THAT. Why not *anything* else?

    My look on the afterlife is that we really don't know. Einstein himself wouldn't know. Know one knows and no one can say they know except say that, "there is no evidence of an afterlife," but why would there be any? It does not make sense, so the final consensus is that we. don't. know.

    Final answer.

    SciForums Bonus: If it is DEATH that is the thing you are worried about, I've already explained that, we really shouldn't be worried about it, since we won't know it is coming. Death would be the same to us as a person who didn't know what death was. But if you are still worried and that is why you cling to an afterlife, than there is hope scientifically for that, also. As the great Fraggle Rocker always says, this should be the century for biology:

    In fact, they are studying a 16 year old girl who doesn't seem to age past 6 month, at least not mentally and outwardly. I think the biggest factor in biology right now is how to keep the brain from aging itself. Almost everything in our body we will be able to replicate soon enough, but a brain? How? So what they need to figure out is how to keep the brain from deteriorating OR somehow copying from our brain like you would copy a hard drive, which would mean learning how to read everything about our brain.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gF9SkmCEEU
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2012

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