My new religion.

Discussion in 'Religion' started by jayleew, Jun 26, 2017.

  1. jayleew Who Cares Valued Senior Member

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    Hi all. It's been several years since I checked in, but I haven't forgotten y'all. My life has evolved over the years. I started on here in my mid 20's as a Christian. I dropped my belief a few years after, and maintained atheism for almost two decades. I'm now the ripe age of 41 and "am blessed."

    I've learned to be strong on my own and prosper due to unseen forces. My life is pretty much uneventful without much grief. I have no complaints, and am happy and at peace.

    If I were to believe in God (capital G, Christianity), it would take answers to these questions:
    1. Why is the belief in Jesus required to make it into heaven? There are scriptures that condemn those that don't to death. Why can't someone live a penitent, apologetic, and altruistic life and be considered. After all, believing is easy when shown. But, loving someone is what is hard. Love is all that matters in this life.
    2. I was brought up in skepticism in my generation. I was taught by society to not believe in anything without reason. So, where is my freedom of belief if I have no choice but to believe reasonable things? Again, to be condemned by this is unjust.
    3. Love is a two way street. Love is bigger than one act like dying on a cross. How does God love us?
    4. God was not silent in the past (according to scripture) in ways that matter to satisfying 3.
    5. Where is justice for the innocent? A single excuse (for God's purpose and our betterment) is not enough due to 1,2, and 3.

    My god is love in all its forms and intents. That is my religion. Sometimes I feel like a Christian, but I don't believe in God, unless God is love. But if God is an entity and love, then the bible is fucked up.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2017
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  3. DLH Registered Member

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    Well, that's good to hear. Good for you.

    The idea that "good" people go to heaven and "bad" people go to hell is a religious concept not supported by the Bible. The Bible itself says that heaven was made for Jehovah and the angels and the Earth was made for man. The meek inherit the Earth, not heaven, though it can be said that the New Earth (stripped of sin, death, sickness, religion, commerce and governments, i.e. the "world" being destroyed from off the Earth) can be called a part of the Kingdom of Heaven. As of now it is ruled by Satan.

    Acts 24:15 "and I have hope toward God, which hope these [men] themselves also entertain, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous."

    What Acts 24:15 is referring to is the resurrection of the people that hadn't had the opportunity to hear the good news of Christ, and therefore being declared righteous by it, may have the opportunity to do so in what is called the first resurrection. So, in effect, one doesn't have to believe in Jesus to inherit everlasting life on Earth. What believing in Jesus means, that is, what the significance of it, is having faith in what he has accomplished and the reasoning behind it. God chose a nation of laws to instruct people of sin and to produce a way out, a messiah. Faith in Jesus required certainly doesn't imply blind faith which is useless, corruptible, and distracting from the truth, it requires faith much the same as one would have for his or her parents or spouse. Based upon accurate knowledge. How could one appreciate what Jesus and Jehovah has done for us and promised the faithful if they knew nothing about it?

    If you were paying attention then you must know by now that if society has taught you anything it has taught you by example, namely, that nearly everything it taught you was a lie or at best, highly suspect biased observation. Theoretical, polemic pontificate, temporal. The faith in Jehovah God offers an alternative to the self destruction of the world in Satan's control, based entirely upon a lie. It's a question of rightful sovereignty. Do you have faith in Satan's control based upon slander, or do you look forward to the promise of something more substantial. Do you have the intelligence to see the difference in the face of full scale opposition to doing so? If you don't what would you do when you got there?

    He created us, and upon being slandered resulting in our rejection of him he provided a) the truth b) a way out and c) a promise of our undeserving salvation from our own self destruction.

    Clarification, please? God wasn't allegedly silent in the past so why is he now? Is that the point? God has supplied us with everything we need.

    Who are the innocent and what justice have they been denied?

    How is the Bible fucked up?
     
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  5. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

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    It is important to remember... the Bible was written by man and, over centuries, was controlled by a few men who used it as a tool to help consolidate their power... while the Word of God is still present, there is no doubt in my mind that some of the original teachings are distorted, be it by malice or misunderstanding and poor translation.
     
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  7. pluto2 Registered Senior Member

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    If there really ever was a God then where is he now?

    Also why there is so much misery, suffering and cruelty on this planet?

    Some people are seriously suffering yet God does nothing to help them.

    The fact that so many people suffer on this planet for no reason and yet God does nothing proves that God is a myth and that he probably never existed.
     
  8. DLH Registered Member

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    51
    The same place he has been since the construction of heaven, namely, heaven itself.

    Because Adam rejected Jehovah's sovereignty, resulting in Jah's having to remove himself from his creation temporarily to address that question fairly. Adam's disobedience resulted in a destructive state of independence before mankind had developed the maturity of the angels.

    If a young man tells his father that he, the son, can do things his own way, then setting about his own self destruction, what should the father do to assist his son in the matter? All a father can do is hope or insist that, in all fairness, he will step in and save his son from ruin. The grandchildren of the father will suffer the consequences but will they learn from it? This is justice.

    You haven't been paying attention.
     
  9. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    Reply

    Seriously????

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  10. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    https://bible.org/seriespage/1-creation-beginning-god

    “The first verse of the Bible is the most important and basic of all. ‘In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth.’ When one really believes this verse, he will have little difficulty believing all the rest of God’s Word.” (Henry Morris, The Beginning of the World, p. 10)

    Interesting

    In my limited knowledge I seem to recall god as always being in existence hence no beginning for him

    So the beginning refers to

    ‘In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth.’

    OK I think I have that straight

    Oh wait the above post says in reply to

    The same place he has been since the construction of heaven, namely, heaven itself

    OK

    Can I ask

    Where did god live before he created heaven?

    OK I just did

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    When he moved into heaven was that the first of his mysterious ways in which he moves?

    Seriously you can't make this stuff up

    Oh wait yes you can

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  11. jayleew Who Cares Valued Senior Member

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    What I mean is that the Bible teaches that you must believe in Jesus Christ, and love God to be saved. Otherwise, you are screwed. This is an unjust commandment, especially for the innocent who have not the ability to make decisions yet, who do not know what belief is, nor love. Many folks fit into this mold, but mostly children and babies who suffer and/or die without the knowledge. So, it's either a miscommunication and the Bible is fucked up, or God is unjust.

    The other class of citizen is the ones who are like me: penitent, apologetic, and altruistic. The ones who gain freedom from sin daily by self evaluating and truly fixing transgressions and understand the human condition to do evil and guard against it: those who do this out of altruism, the duty (and joy) to love others and sacrifice themselves (for others) when necessary.

    If it is God's desire to only want people who love it and believe, then that allows evil people to go to heaven: Those who die daily to their old lives and are reborn and washed clean by the Son's blood, but yet never truly enlightened to what it costs to love another person and do not pay that price. They are willing to go, but not that far.

    So, either the Bible is not quite right or God is unjust for both of those reasons: condemning the innocent, and the just, for the sin of non-belief.

    In the end, I don't believe, so I don't care about heaven or hell. I'm looking for any folks who believe in God, but also believe that the Bible is fallible. Christians grip to the thing as the complete and utter truth blindly by faith, but yet it teaches of the jealous god (who kills out of jealousy) and that is unjust for requiring faith in it to gain eternal life.
     
  12. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

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    This is covered in the idea of prescient grace - basically, those who are unable to make the decision to "come to Christ" are still saved by Christ's sacrifice for us all. That's the beauty of it - the gift of Grace is available to any and all - the only way to not be "saved" is to actively choose not to be saved, eg, to willfully turn away from God and disavow Christ's sacrifice.

    My opinion - even those who are agnostic have not turned away - they merely feel they are not able to comprehend the greatness of a Deity (which, lets be fair - could a simple mortal mind really understand/comprehend the mere view of a Deity, much less understand who and what they truly are?)

    My understanding of it is that God sent Christ down to take our place - it is a gift of Grace. All we need to do is be willing to accept it, and not actively turn away from it. Some, such as a stillborn child, are unable to actively accept Grace - thus, they are provided for in said Grace... I heard it put incredibly well once, but I am nowhere near eloquent enough to explain it the way it was to me.
     
  13. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    Sinse those who accept Grace are somptin other than simple mortals... what are they.???

    So in you'r opinion... do simple mortals who dont beleive thers such a thang as "gift of Grace" deserve punishment.???
     
  14. pluto2 Registered Senior Member

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    763
    Why doesn't God help homeless and sick people or those who are on the verge of suicide?

    So many people die by suicide every year so that it's impossible for a loving God to exist.

    Also so many people in the world cannot find true love and are lonely and depressed because of it yet God doesn't lend these people any sort of helping hand.
     
  15. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    Some who ant helped are meer mortals who are unable to understand so they willfully turn away from God... an the others who ant helped will spend eternity in heaven... an thats what the Holey-Bible refers to as bein "fair an just".!!!
     
  16. DLH Registered Member

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    Yes. Seriously.
     
  17. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

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    To be honest, that is something I have wondered (why He doesn't directly intervene). But, then again, what would you have God do? In a roundabout way, He has done and is doing something - put caring, compassionate people on this planet and given us, in His laws, the ideals that we are meant to love one another -
    "Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."


    As for those on the verge of suicide... as someone who has been there multiple times, I can safely say the He does intervene in ways; long story made exceptionally short, I attempted several times to kill myself during my teenage years, with my last attempt being putting a loaded .357 revolver to my head. Six pulls of the trigger, and it would not fire - I threw it at the ground, and it blew a hole in one of our cabinets. Took it outside, and fired the other five rounds down the end of our yard. I'm not quick to declare divine intervention, but it certainly got my attention.

    On the one hand, your statement is a non-sequitur and/or false equivocation... case in point, I had friends and family that loved me very much, yet I still suffered from depression, suicidal thoughts, and suicidal and self-harming tendencies.

    On the other hand, the only way God could end suicide entirely would be to remove any sense of free will, which would seem to defeat the entire purpose of having humans at all.

    I would ask again - what would you have God do? I believe that there is at least one, if not multiple, possible matches for everyone in the world - the problem is, we get in our own way. For the longest time, I was looking for my "ideal woman", not realizing I had already met her. It took her forcing her way into my life at one of my lowest points because she was legitimately concerned for my well being (I was away at school, my grandfather had just relapsed with cancer, and my girlfriend of several years had broken things off with me, among other things, leaving me in a deep funk) for me to start to realize it. She and I have been married over eight years now, and she is everything I ever wanted in a girl and more... yet I had blinded myself to it because I had this "image" I was determined to pursue in my mind.

    It is also important to note... love is not an emotion. It is a verb, and something you actively cultivate and pursue. Falling in love is not the "end game" - it is the beginning. You then have to work, both (or more) of you, to make it work. Fights and arguments are inevitable. Little annoyances and disagreements, et al... and that's OK. You can even have a fight to the point you don't even like one another in that moment... but you still are willing to do anything for the other and be there and help them.

    True Love... it's messy, complicated, difficult, and at times foolish... but it is the single greatest adventure one can embark on.
     
  18. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    At this very moment ther are children bein molested/raped... an unlike you i woud not explain it away wit a arm-wave an a bible-verse... i woud simply have God to not allow it.!!!
    Do you know of any reason good enuff to allow children to suffer such horrors.???
     
  19. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    Ummm

    The god virus is more serious than malaria

    It appears the god virus has caused more than one brain to cause more death and destruction in human life then this mosquito-borne infectious disease

    At least the disease parasitic protozoans cannot cause natural disasters otherwise we would be in deep poo poo and not believe there is a great plan to live in the sky in peace and harmony

    I guess hanging around here for three score years and ten plus or minus the quantum fluctuation could be considered merciful instead of making us stay like 250 years

    Seriously

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  20. kx000 Valued Senior Member

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    1. Its up to you. You can hate anything below, but hate doesn't go to Heaven because of its friend Suffering. God is LOVE.
    2. I do believe.
    3. With peace.
    5. God is passive. The only reason you get hurt is your own dis-belief.
     
  21. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Tell that to the termites, or the ants, or especially the honeybees, they practiced that commandment long before man came along.
    Perhaps that's why they have managed to survive for hundreds of millions of years. But alas, they don't believe in anything. They just do it. Perhaps they have the wisdom of the angels?

    Oh, dear, it just occurred to me that we always misunderstood the word angels and started believing in the wisdom of angles.
    This would explain our misunderstanding of the concept of the Triad as meaning Triangles and the fractal nature of the Universe.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2017
  22. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Live in an alternative reality?
     
  23. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    Please tell us more about this god who has given us everything we need

    And who loves us

    And will take us to heaven because we are the innocent and what is this thing you call justice?

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