My path to atheism: Yours? Rebuttals?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Dinosaur, Apr 1, 2017.

  1. Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    When Abraham was asked to sacrifice Isaac, I considered it a demonic request. I considered Abraham to be evil when he agreed to the request. This started me on the path to being an atheist.

    I was born when my father was almost 5o years old & semi-retired. Compared to the fathers of my classmates & friends, he had more time for me that most fathers.

    The story of Abraham & Isaac was taught to me in Sunday school when I was circa 7-8 years old. It resulted in several discussions with my Sunday school teacher.

    Perhaps those less bonded with their father or maybe those with more respect for Judaeo-Christian beliefs would not consider it a demonic request.

    I was convinced that my father would refuse to comply with a request to sacrifice me and when/if I had a son I would similarly refuse to comply with such a request.
     
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  3. karenmansker HSIRI Banned

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    Quote from Dino #1 post: 'When Abraham was asked to sacrifice Isaac, I considered it a demonic request."

    Geez Dino . . . . I didn't realize you were THAT old!? . . HAHA! . . . I understand your comment, though!
     
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  5. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    My doubts about the bible started when I was little boy and figured out how to create a rainbow with the water sprinkler. I realized there was nothing miraculous about it. This brought the Noah story into question. It was a 20 years downhill slide to full blown doubt about the entire concept from there.
     
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  7. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

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    Some of my best conversations (and chess games) with priests were after I "lost my faith" at about 13.

    The priest let me desecrate the altar of the church we were working in, to the dismay of my fellow carpenters and the barely-hidden glee of me and the good father. Never had so much fun with religion!
     
  8. karenmansker HSIRI Banned

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    Toad: Perhaps your path would have evolved differently had the priest allowed you to help consecrate, rather than desecrate, the church altar . . . .
     
  9. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

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    Don't read too much into it. At the time I was 15 years older than my "date of apostasy", and well set mentally. The priest enjoyed it immensely.

    Consecration and desecration are accomplished by prayer and ritual, and basically consist of emplacing or removing the artifact (a bit of saint's bone or lock of hair, what have you) in the altar.

    There was nothing out of the ordinary there. We were re-using the stone from the old altar in the remodeling job, so everything had to be done properly.
     
  10. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    I'm missing a step. You didn't like the story. You thought it was, say, hypocritical.

    And then, what?

    How did that ultimately result in not believing in God?
     
  11. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Do you mean desecrate? Or do you mean deconsecrate?

    deconsecrate is to remove the consecration from a church or similar building
    desecrate is to profane or violate the sacredness or sanctity of something.
    http://wikidiff.com/desecrate/deconsecrate
     
  12. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

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    The term the priest used was desecrate. I'll go with that.
     
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  13. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    For me it was one thing after the other.
    I recall thinking about the supposed flood and how cruel god was to kill every human and animal except those on the magic boat.
    The story seemed phoney to me as I could not see how one could gather two of each animal from all around the world. This seemed impossible because of the vast distances between the continents. I also could not work out how the whole planet could be covered in water or where it drained away to when the rain stopped.
    I recall that after the deaths of a whole family by fire in our small town wondering why god with all his power did not save them. The parents were good people and the children did not deserve to die in such a horrible way.
    I could not understand why god let people suffer and die if he had the power to do everything.
    I began to think god was just made up and used like a bogeyman by the church to get people to go to church and give them money. There were many poor folk in my little town I could not understand why they had to give money to the church when the church in Rome had so much treasure.
    And seeing folk say grace always got to me. They thanked the lord for their food when clearly it was the farmer who did all the work to grow the cattle and vegetables and god certainly did not cook it.
    I always thought it should be the farmer and the cook who should get thanked.
    I then started to think folk who believed in god must be stupid because they never woke up to the fact they were being conned.
    Alex
     
  14. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    First Abraham was not a Jew . In the culture were Abraham was raised they offered their children to gods same as in Maya or Aztec cultures was practice . So that are old practices. Now here comes the question
    did God asked him or was it that you wanted to please god , remember in the story of Adam and Eve their sons presented God with offering to please God. So was it a voluntary offer we don't know , The thing the bible tells us the sacrifice did not take place
     
  15. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    You were 13 years old and you mention fellow carpenters , I think at that time you were just a drip and you say my fellow carpenters , you are just a religion basher.
     
  16. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Clearly they wanted to please god they were ignorant and superstitious but the story as it seems to be told is that god did ask so that is evidence of the delusion.
    I do not understand how parents could think killing their children could please anyone and points to the fact that they were very odd folk.
    All this business of sacrifice simply fed some sort of blood lust presumably put forward by the head nutter of the group.
    Anyways Tim the thread is all about how sensible people here woke up to the fact religion is a con job and how they found the good sence to reject the concept, there is no need for you to defend religion and act as an appologist for the unacceptable nonsence ancient ignorant folk used to explain their world.
    The stories in the bible are simply stories.. You seem able to make them meaningful and that is great for you but please realise as an athiest I dont even think they are good stories as they fail through inconsistency.
    The thread invites members to share how they saw through the con job not for members to appologise for the screwed thinking of ancient folk.
    Alex
     
  17. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    I can take your story of Noah , I think it was first published by Gilgamesh
    We have to consider also the world for those people was lesser in size , in essence people were localised . I think the case of Noah , there was a melting of glaciers because of global warming at that time and the area in mesopotamia was blocked at the strait of Hormuz , so the total Iraq flooded and that was their world.
     
  18. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    I understand your point.
    There may be real history in support of a flood of their small world.
    Noahs story may have grown from a farmer saving his family and animals however the story in the bible is presented as we find it and that story says god killed everything except for life on the boat. History showing a flood does not justify such a lie. If its a lie get rid of it.
    Why pervert real history to describe a god bent on killing everyone and everything...
    Alex
     
  19. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    So you acknowledge that it didn't really happen as described in the book? It's not literal truth? Congratulations, you have taken the first step.
     
  20. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    I've never understood this connection - and I've read it over and over through the years. It's quite possible for god to exist and be an asshole.

    I came to the conclusion that the god of the bible doesn't exist because the bible is so easily refuted by facts. Not because I didn't like god as a being. (If god exists - it is what it is.)

    For me, the last nail (so to speak) was when I realized that Jesus's "mission" of "reconciliation" hinged on the Garden of Eden being a true literal story. Without that, the entire idea falls apart.
     
  21. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    The story of Noah or garden of Eden and other don't bother me . the fact is that nature is here and I am part of nature , and there is someone other intelligent force beside us human. What is written by previous writer that was enough explanation for those societies . That is similar in the present society science write all sort of theory for some people is enough and they get on the bandwagon , perhaps in the future we will learn to change our theory .
    But the basic laws given to us love thy creator , respect Him and love thy neighbor as yourself . That will stay otherwise we human are going to have a calamity. I have some problem to obey His law , but I am working with His help to correct my salf.
     
  22. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    So you accept that the bible is just stories written by humans? Good, you're well on the road to accepting that it's all just made up. Some of the stories may have a useful analogy to impart... then again, so does Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
     
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  23. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    Not all , there are some metaphor or parables to make clear to the people to understand. Was there in the
    past a king David , Cyrus the great, Herod the great, Moses, Abraham, Noah, and many more.
     

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