New book calls science a "Priesthood"

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by rpenner, Dec 24, 2011.

  1. RealityCheck Banned Banned

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    HI Trooper!

    Good fun is good. I wouldn't have it any other way! And continuing the vein....

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    Hahaha! You seem to have a 'thing' about Queenslanders. Contrary to what you may have heard said by some non-Queenslanders of questionable parentage (joke), many Queenslanders are people too....and some of them even quite intelligent and erudite (Good Elf comes to mind there; I think he lives in Brisbane....If you're surfing through here at all, mate: Hi there Good Elf! :wave: ).

    No, actually I'm from NSW, on the South Coast within walking distance of Jervis Bay beaches. Never lived anywhere else in Oz, only in Sydney and now here (because of my health/work).

    Cheers to you, wherever you live, NA, everyone! :wave:

    .

    PS: Sorry, gotta go. Logging out....NOW! Bye!

    .
     
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  3. river

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    the priesthood of science is called so because it is afraid of other theories

    this is many aspects of science

    true there are financial aspects to science , funding and salaries

    but the sacrifice , to the truth of whats true has to made , by all in the ologies

    it just has to be
     
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  5. rpenner Fully Wired Valued Senior Member

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    Hey, river or whoever you really are,
    Just because you want to co-opt the authority science has in society today without doing the work that scientists did to get the present state of knowledge, does not demonstrate that science is afraid of your ideas. Science gets its authority because it tests its ideas precisely against the universe's behavior not by how easy they are to understand or how intuitive they are. Fundamental physics today is precise and applies to all observed phenomena without demonstrated exceptions.

    You appear jealous that science has authority and you are just a whiny voice on the internet without followers. You appear jealous that the time and efforts of those that do science well are respected by others and that their ideas can be communicated reliably usefully to their science-trained co-workers while you have difficulty in composing your thoughts into complete sentences.

    So instead of making an argument for why, in your opinion, there is a particular definition of "priesthood" that meaningfully can be used to describe the open societies of professional modelers of the universe, you nakedly assert this claim. If you can't even meaningfully argue for the opinions you personally hold, it seems too much you can argue that the universe is better modeled by your ideas.
     
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  7. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Is this the best you can do in reply to the points and questions I raised?
     
  8. Pincho Paxton Banned Banned

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    No, I could repeat all of my answers for the 100th time, but it is getting boring. You are close minded. Put it this way, to make it simple...

    When you have physics that fail at the quantum level, the arrows are pointing the wrong way. When you have physics that fail at the Galactic level so that you end up with Dark Matter, you have physics with arrows pointing the wrong way. The middle part is all Earth scale. Funnily enough, the middle part can be measured. The quantum part is invisible, and the Galactic part is too far away. You said that Quantum physics works the best of all mathematics. Change G so that it doesn't have the schoolboy error, and it will now point towards Quantum Physics, and eliminate Dark Matter. So G is now a push from outside of the asteroid, and G is now local to that asteroid, it is not at a distance to the Earth. When you are a computer programmer, you learn that when something doesn't work you can bodge it. G is currently a bodge. It is backwards. When you correct G you have pressure in 3D towards holes. Holes are mass, and mass is therefore negative mass. When you are at Earth scale you can measure the water inside a bucket, and you can eliminate the water from the bucket's mass. At the quantum scale however an electron is a bucket, but its mass is combined with the water, because man can no longer measure it. Science is a bunch of people with measuring equipment that they do not know how to use. Electrons cannot pull, nothing can pull. The electron has the illusion of a pull force because it is a hole filling up. If you move particles into a hole you are pushing them from behind.

    But of course you only want me to answer so that you can ban me. You told me not to answer earlier on in my messaged forum warning. Do not post trolling something or other, whatever that is. On a Christian site trolling would be to post Atheist remarks. On this site, trolling is to post an opposing theory to science... a priesthood.
     
  9. Emil Valued Senior Member

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    Science is knowledge.
    We know more than 30 years ago, more than 100 years ago, more than 1,000 years ago and more than 5000 years ago.
    If there are people who claim that science is a religion and a scientist is like a priest, I think, are so far from the truth, as not worth trying to convince them of the contrary.
    (only one of the many different aspects: the evolution of science versus the evolution a religion !)

    p.s. The science is not limited to math and quantum physics.
     
  10. Pincho Paxton Banned Banned

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    Science is limited by mistakes. You point G in the wrong direction, and you limit everything. You have a singularity, and inflation because G is pointing the wrong way. You have an arrow of time because G is pointing the wrong way. You have attractive forces because particles are supposed to be dragging the wrong way. You have attractive magnets because Magnetism uses mass backwards. You have mass the wrong way. If only science was in a position to limit itself.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2012
  11. Emil Valued Senior Member

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  12. Pincho Paxton Banned Banned

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  13. Emil Valued Senior Member

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    OK, you won. You're like a priest !

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  14. Aqueous Id flat Earth skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    I like your (almost) logarithmic scale for looking back in time. Even if that wasn't your intent, it shows another way that science offers "right" thinking, unconstrained by any doctrine that Pincho conjures up. The world isn't only linear, and we avoid linear thinking altogether, except mostly when drilling down to a conclusion, such as math may require, through the strict application of fixed rules, ultimately (usually) algebra.

    Under Pincho's theory of science, (science fiction), we can reverse any hypothesis or conclusion, any element of a syllogism or corollary, any parameter, unit, boundary condition, function argument, inequality, operator, or differential in the underlying theorems--it's all uncertain, but only collapses into his definition of certitude upon landing in his mind as his own personal interpretation of order. It's a kind of linear thinking that rails against its most unlikely foe - the proven theorems from which all valid inference necessarily arises.

    All of science collapses into something he associates with physics, which is not only not physics, it's not even metaphysics (magic), nor pure pseudoscience either, in the sense that those folks build their magic show on half-truths. His aren't even half true, they're just random machinations. Which he strictly associates with a few topics from cosmology and quantum physics. That's his entire scope of science (and math), entirely justified through false bravado, which, as we see, is just the reverse of a true one.

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    All of his ideation can be reduced to one axiom:

    Because I said so.:itold:

    If that isn't a religion, I don't know what is.

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  15. Trooper Secular Sanity Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, I’ve had some unusual correspondence with Good Elf, myself. In fact, I asked him about the crank that I was referring to. His journey began from behind the iron curtain in Romania. Good Elf explained how communism and religion could stir up additional dimensions of paranoia. He was right. This fella was a truth seeker, who had prayed for the answers. He said he experienced something that I’d call religious ecstasy and was immediately able to comprehend the most complicated physics. Unfortunately, God wasn’t a good math professor. So, he was searching for a little assistance in this area.

    “Then he made the molten sea; it was round, ten cubits from brim to brim, and five cubits high. A line of thirty cubits would encircle it completely.” ~God

    The Almighty says 30 units, not 31.4 units...but hey, who am I to argue with God. Maybe God ate part of the pi, eh?

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    He also, openly admitted that he had fantastical beliefs. He was methodical, organized, and intelligent, which I found fascinating. Of course, he had an over inflated sense of self and was extremely verbose, but he was interesting, I’ll give him that.

    "The megalomaniac differs from the narcissist by the fact that he wishes to be powerful rather than charming, and seeks to be feared rather than loved. To this type belong many lunatics and most of the great men of history." ~Bertrand Russell

    Cheers, RC. :wave:

    P.S. I’m from California, and thanks to La Niña and the Arctic oscillations, we are having amazing weather.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2012
  16. Emil Valued Senior Member

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  17. Pincho Paxton Banned Banned

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    And that image can be reversed also. But the idea isn't to reverse everything. The idea is to put gravity in its correct position, behind the asteroid. The position of gravity makes a big difference to how you think of the universe. A pull from the Earth puts gravity at a distance from the asteroid. By reversing the gravity formula you have G positioned right next to the asteroid. It moves cause next to its effect.
     
  18. Emil Valued Senior Member

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    I do not understand why you're talking about G. :shrug:
    I'm talking about the thread "New book calls science a "Priesthood"
     
  19. Pincho Paxton Banned Banned

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    If we were talking about Christians we would be talking about God. If science is a priesthood then the subject is G to replace God. If G doesn't exist how scientists think it exists then we have an exact correlation to the thread title.

    For example..

    Argument against Christian priesthood = God doesn't exist.

    Argument against Scientific priesthood = G is a push, the singularity, and the Big Bang do not exist.

    I was half replying to this as well....

     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2012
  20. Emil Valued Senior Member

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    I do not think the theme proposed here is related to the existence or not of God.
    I know scientists who believe in the existence of God.
    Neither they would not agree with "science is a "Priesthood"
     
  21. Pincho Paxton Banned Banned

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    I didn't say that.
     
  22. Emil Valued Senior Member

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    Means that we agree. :cheers:
     
  23. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Pincho Paxton:

    What arrows?

    You constantly talk about things that you don't define or explain in any way. This is one of the reasons why everything you post is useless. It's like a smoke and mirrors game with you, by which you try to give the impression that you're saying something deep while in reality you're saying nothing at all. The problem you face is that there are plenty of people here who can see right through you.

    Unquantified, unexplained, useless rubbish.

    What error? Change G how? How does G "point" anywhere? What are these "arrows" you keep talking about?

    I'm sure we won't see any answers to any of these questions from you.

    You just introduced an asteroid out of nowhere. G is a number, not a push. In other words, meanignless nonsense from you.

    How can a number be backwards?

    More nonsense.

    Strange, since they invented it.

    More useless rubbish.

    You have no theory. You only have a bunch of disconnected words. You have picked up some random elements of jargon and that's all you have. You don't know what any of it means. You obviously have no training or understanding of anything in physics. You can't do maths. All you have is bluff, an overblown ego, and a wild overconfidence in your own capacities.
     

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