New Energy sources

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience' started by kwhilborn, Jan 14, 2014.

  1. kwhilborn Banned Banned

    This was reported in todays Financial Post. There is allegedly a 3rd Party verification and a demonstration slated for the 28th. Generation Millions/9384649/story.html

    I am posting this based on the Press Release and am not fully informed on this. Hoax? Who knows.

    Science is due a nice breakthrough.

    10 billion watts per liter of water is quite a claim and would be a game changing tech to all.

    It will be interesting to see if this is legit.

    The Third Party Verification does sound pretty ... (BELOW)
    If True ...

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    100 times cheaper electricity might be a good thing ...


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  3. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

    I cannot be certain, of course, but I believe it to be a hoax. And BlackLight Power is known for it's outrageous claims in the past - announcing stuff that simply did NOT exist or work. So I hope you'll excuse my vast underwhelming attitude. They have also had to RETRACT filings with the US Patent Office.

    I would strongly recommend that everyone read this Wiki article before loosing any sleep over what I believe to be nonsense.
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  5. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Here we go again, in fact.

    The notion that the electron in the hydrogen atom can go below its ground state would seem to violate a fair number of well-established principles. So, it falls into the the category of extraordinary claims……..well, we all know the rest………….

    Wake me up when this joker has a commercial device actually generating the power claimed, or when someone rewrites the whole theory of atomic structure to accommodate this idea.
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  7. billvon Valued Senior Member

    As free energy goes, the Papp Engine has a much better track record.
  8. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Confess I had to look this up. Papp sounds a bit like Rossi: paranoid, intent on making money before the science (if any) is established, ending in a chain of failed and/or suspicious demonstrations. Though Rossi has yet to kill anyone, it's true.

    I had vaguely heard of this Blacklight bunch, I think, but had to look up what their particular schtick is. An energy state of the hydrogen electron below its ground state strikes me as being in the ballpark of 99%+ likelihood of being total cobblers. Naturally, they too want to commercialise a machine before the science is established. The same, arse-about-face strategy, beloved of charlatans through the ages.
  9. kwhilborn Banned Banned

    @ Exchemist,

    So by this logic mankind should have avoided using fire until the 20th century.

    I do not endorse Blacklight as I stated in the OP, but it was an interesting claim in The Financial Post.

    @ Read Only,

    I read your Wiki Link and it states that this organization has amassed over 60 Million in venture Capital for this project. Is it some sort of Ponzi Scheme?

    I am a great believer in Logic and am an amateur (mostly) Magician, and am having a harder time understanding how this scam would work. Since this inventor has already raised 60 million dollars ...

    What is his angle?

    Why are Third Party Organizations supporting the idea?


    ON CNN ...

    Now it is 5 years later... Why are they not all in Argentina sipping Mai-tai's by now?

    NOTE: They are now claiming it is more than 10 times as efficient as then.

    They are also holding a demonstration at the end of this month ( Why ESCALATE) which is the first time they have ever done that. They have popped up about once every year and announced they have a breakthrough and the vanished again, but never have they gone this far.

    Also the Patents you said they withdrew were actually rejected as the claim contravenes (supposedly) known physics. We also see that with LENR (kind of related) which I still maintain is real.

    I would be more comfortable with rejecting the idea if I could see the smoke and mirrors.

    RE: LENR,

    LENR is confirmed as true by dozens of unrelated sources. People say Rossi is after money but he was obviously rich enough to pursue LENR for years unencumbered, and had even hired Focardi. Rossi refused many investors. If he had gone public I would have purchased shares, but he has turned his nose up at most offers of money.
    He did get into trouble previously when he attempted waste Management in a country known to be dominated by Mafia, but he returned and faced all charges when he could have easily remained in the United States after President Carter gave him a Visa.

    He has owned a company worth 30 million (USD).

    I guess I am saying that scam scenarios usually involve attempts to raise money, and then the scammer usually ends up in a country with no extradition. This stage is missing. Why would Blacklight raise 60 million and still need more?

    Why would Blacklight and Rossi aim to work in the United States where some of the toughest anti-fraud laws exist?

    I am still not endorsing Blacklight, but I'd like the "scam" to make sense.

    NOTE: Dr. Randall Mills, founder of Blacklight Power graduated summa cum laude (Top 10% of class) and Phi Beta Kappa (high academic achievement) in 1982 with a degree in Chemistry from Franklin and Marshall College in Pennsylvania, and went on to Harvard Medical School, where he earned the MD.
    degree in 1986, conducted applied research, and filed patents on several revolutionary medical technologies.
    He has been issued numerous patents by the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office in such areas as medical imaging, Mossbauer cancer therapy, and drug delivery systems (Discussed in LINK BELOW). Since 1989, however, he has devoted nearly all his energies to the development of what he has dubbed the HydroCatalysis process of liberating energy from hydrogen atoms. (read in entirety)

    Although mostly ignored he did also publish a Unifying Theory for Physics.

    The above note also tells us this "SCAM" was started by a Medical Doctor educated at Harvard who also has a summa cum laude (Top 10% of class) and Phi Beta Kappa (high academic achievement) Degree in Chemistry.

    IF Dr. Randall Mills worked as a (Harvard Educated) Doctor since 1989 (25 years), he could have earned minimum $100k a year with plenty of time for lying on the beaches.

    I want to think its a scam, but why would he do this?

    Mainstream Physics disagrees with him. So he is either a scammer or smarter than everyone else. Both are possible.
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2014
  10. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

    Despite his background, Mills has an obsession with what he calls "hydrinos", something that NO ONE outside himself and his company says is even possible. And his ignorance is displayed in that "Unifying Theory for Physics" - it's nothing but a load of BS.

    In order to save time, energy and wasted posts, I'll just take the same stance as I've done with Rossi: Simply sit back and see. But I will note that nothing has come from the Rossi side and I expect the same here.
  11. kwhilborn Banned Banned

    @ Read Only/All,

    The Energy devices demonstrated (by validations) seems to have progressed from a powder to water vapour as the source. It would appear a logical progression of R&D but I am still not endorsing this.

    The reasons LENR seem easier to accept is because dozens of unrelated parties are all making claims they have working devices to some extent.

    The LENR thread was hit fairly hard with spam although I have been watching the field and its proponents.

    It is still progressing

    or a video of Doctor McKubre posted today also...
    (Those are just from today).

    No need to watch video. Dr. McKubre just verifies he has seen many replications of Cold Fusion experiments. This is a man who saw Cold Fusion kill a coworker and injure him. He still has glass inside him.

    The above link to WIRED Magazine (published today) is an example of what I have not been posting. Although the articles Title "Cold fusion continues to progress stealthily into the mainstream" pretty much covers that story.

    I still maintain we will be using some form of LENR (BLP Counts) in our cars by 2021. I said 10 years in 2011.

    Quite honestly the only possibility of LENR being a scam is if a few dozen organizations (all with many Academics) all decided to fake LENR at the same time. You would need to disqualify Toyota, Brillouin, Honda, Rossi, piantelli, Celani, Mitsubishi, Miley, Hagelstein, Defkalion, Nasa, BLP, and many more making identical LENR claims.

    Given the Education and Background of Dr. Randall Mills, and the notion that such a company as BLP would not have gone 25 years into a subject without at least some validation along the way, I am inclined to think they have done something, but is it a stable reaction or does it collapse as the Rossi Demos often did in the beginning.

    When there is noteworthy LENR news I will start the thread up again, but for now most everyone is being hush.
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2014
  12. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Yes, well, I'm entirely with Read-Only on this.

    Unlike you, I have considerable faith in atomic physics and very little in some medical doctor who has persuaded a few people to part with money to follow his notion. I don't find the support of such people remotely persuasive, bearing in mind the idiotic schemes that investors so frequently pile money into. Don't forget, these people are just investors, many of whom take a risk-based approach to things and like to back a few oddball ventures as part of their investment mix, without understanding them much, just on the off-chance. The world is full of charlatans and self-deluded people, I'm afraid, some of whom are very good at convincing others who don't have the necessary knowledge to see the flaws. Whereas we scientists DO have that knowledge and that is why we are deeply, deeply sceptical.

    As you know, the same, though perhaps to a lesser degree in view of the variety of people/phenomena involved/reported, goes for LENR in general as far as I'm concerned, but that has all been dealt with ad nauseam on the other thread.
  13. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

  14. exchemist Valued Senior Member


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