New Vector Theory of Gravity challenges GR

Discussion in 'Physics & Math' started by Q-reeus, Jun 9, 2018.

  1. Hayden Registered Member

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    So what I can infer is that this all metric maths is nothing but to explain the gravity as produced by matter.

    But there is catch, not very deep also, the metric analysis says that the matter affects the geometry of spacetime as defined by metric.

    Ideally speaking maths should explain effect of X (real entity) on Y (another real entity), but in these theories the maths is explaining the effect of matter (real entity) on spacetime (mathematical tool)

    Now the spacetime also is a mathematical tool, so to define gravity the deformation of a mathematical tool is used. I see no link with maths directly touching upon the reality. It is maths working on a mathematical tool to explain the reality. Isn't it weird or is it our inability to associate spacetime with something real as on date. May be in near future we can comprehend that spacetime is much more than a mathematical abstraction.
     
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  3. Q-reeus Valued Senior Member

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    In any modern theory of gravity with a chance of agreeing with observations, it has to be a metric theory. Unavoidably matter and spacetime feed back on each other.
    John Wheeler's famous line: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/71...matter-how-to-move-matter-tells-spacetime-how
    The trick is to make sure that mutual curving and moving interplay, is formulated in such a way it doesn't lead to nonsensical contradictions and infinities.
     
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  5. Hayden Registered Member

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    You still refuse to touch upon the key point of mathematical abstraction.

    How can matter tell a mathematical tool aka spacetime to curve? I am not talking about the mechanism, I am talking about how a real thing can influence maths.
     
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  7. Q-reeus Valued Senior Member

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    Refuse?! Disappointing you see it like that. Actually I've gone to considerable trouble in providing plenty of imo pertinent links and imo tried to answer your queries reasonably.
    Did I ever say spacetime was just a mathematical abstraction? Nobody knows what exactly gravity/spacetime 'is' as an ultimate rock-bottom 'thing'. Let me put the onus on you. Point to some alternative framework that rationally does away with concept of spacetime (even if just as 'emergent' property) while also successfully explaining all of the observational confirmations that spacetime framework does.
    Compared to the weirdness of QM, I'd say relativity is downright pedestrian.
    I'm not interested in a philosophical excursion into ontology vs epistemology.
     
  8. Hayden Registered Member

    Messages:
    70
    No, you did not, I contd away with that infinity abstraction thread.

    But now you are hinting that spacetime could be much more than maths; the clear question emerges now:: What if at the end of the day we see that spacetime is just maths ? Obviously a real thing (matter) cannot distort mathematical entity.
     
  9. Q-reeus Valued Senior Member

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    Well let me put it this way. We now know for sure GW's exist. They have physical effects otherwise LIGO/Virgo could not have detected them. In GR such waves are purely spacetime curvature. Not so in Yilmaz theory or Svidzinsky vector gravity. The latter two, in somewhat different specific ways, provide imo a considerably more consistent picture. But no point in going further here. Study the subject and get a feel for the concepts that underlie those theories.
     
  10. Hayden Registered Member

    Messages:
    70
    I must study.
    In GR it is SPACETIME curvature or changes in them.

    In the latter two they could be changes in SPACETIME transverse or radial lines, but the so called spacetime is still intact.

    Imo we have no answer about spacetime being something yet unknown reality that is much more than maths, till then it is mathematical abstraction only.
     

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