# Now is Not the Time for Profits!

Discussion in 'World Events' started by Buffalo Roam, Jan 31, 2009.

1. ### Buffalo RoamRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
16,931
Obama said it, now how does He think we are going to get out of the recession?

If there are no profits for companies there is no recovery, and this Man is President?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090129/ap_on_go_pr_wh/obama_bonuses

"There will be time for them to make profits, and there will be time for them to get bonuses," Obama said. "Now is not that time."

3. ### cosmictravelerBe kind to yourself always.Valued Senior Member

Messages:
33,264
I think he means if you already make 100.00 a week in profits not to increase the costs of your goods to increase profits. So if you sold that thing that you recieved 100.00 in profits for , for 300.00, then don't increase that items cost if can help it.

5. ### Buffalo RoamRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
16,931
If your are selling something for $100 it is because that is what the market will bear, and not one cent more, you cannot arbitraryly raise the price of your product to$300 unless people are willing to pay $300 for it. And if people will pay$300 for your product then that profit is justifiable, if not then you go out of business because your sale drop and you stop making a profit.

We are in a recession because so many companies stopped making profits, they can't pay the investors dividends from the money the Investors invested in their companies, and now investors are not investing in those companies, because they are not making profits anymore.

Fannie and Freddie stopped being profitable, they over priced their market, beyond what the consumer could pay, so the consumer stopped paying for a inflated product that was no longer worth what they contracted for it.

The Fannie and Freddie Fuck up was a great big democratic ponzi scheme, dependent on the price always going up and more and more people spending money they couldn't afford, and like all ponzi schemes it reached the breaking point, where not enough new money was coming in to keep the prices going up so it busted, and started the slide in to recession, and now most likely Depression.

What don't you understand that profits are what keep us out of recessions and depressions.

What don't the President understand about that, no profits no recovery.

7. ### pjdude1219The biscuit has risenValued Senior Member

Messages:
16,068
Yeah I'm going to agree with you. It seemed to me he was implying they shouldn't go for excessive profits.

8. ### XeliosWe're setting you adrift idiotRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
2,447
I dunno, in my experience a bonus is usually earned by doing a good job. Have these guys been doing a good job?

9. ### pjdude1219The biscuit has risenValued Senior Member

Messages:
16,068
Dude some of these guys get a bones and than are fired a week later.

10. ### XeliosWe're setting you adrift idiotRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
2,447
That's what severance packages are for...

11. ### spidergoatLiddle' Dick TaterValued Senior Member

Messages:
53,966
BR, I think you are interpreting those words incorrectly. He meant that at this time, most companies aren't profiting like they were, so why are they rewarding people for poor performance? That's not capitalism, is it? This is all the more regrettable if these same companies are getting federal loans or bail outs.

12. ### Buffalo RoamRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
16,931
How do you get that out of this?, a direct quote:

13. ### cosmictravelerBe kind to yourself always.Valued Senior Member

Messages:
33,264
BR, too many people in business today are reaping very high , extremely high profits and you know damn well they are, that's NET profits I'm talking about. Greed is prevalent everywhere and a few greedy people need to just stop their greedy ways and slow down their profit taking and just ease back on wanting , taking and stealing the money from consumers.

14. ### Buffalo RoamRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
16,931
Really, you can prove that?

Profit is what keeps us out of recession, and depression.

The profits dissapear and guess what you get, recession, and depression.

Now show that any profit that is excessive, doesn't kill sales and return the price of the product to the market value, any profit that is support by the demand and sale of a product is not excessive, and the President doesn't have the right to determine what excessive profits are, the market will do that just fine.

The last time a President and the Government determined what was excessive profits were under Carter, and we ended up with Interest rate,
21%, Inflation, 13.5%. Unemployment, 7%

15. ### TiassaLet us not launch the boat ...Staff Member

Messages:
36,130
Childish things

While I hold with those who would suggest our neighbor, Mr. Roam, is splitting hairs in order to pretend a controversial proposition where there is none, we should also remember that many companies are perfectly willing to sink their revenue into another aspect of business: growth.

Inextricable from that notion is that a business might attempt to increase its profits by reducing its expenditures. And a common expenditure to reduce is the labor force.

Meanwhile, we see a of snotty, ill-concieved proposition straight from the intellectual gutter:

Quite clearly, such sentiments don't give a damn about the economy or people at large. Such rhetoric is purely political, an impotent twitch of flaccid pride. Indeed, the examples he pretends support his point are nothing more than vapid political slogans preying on the ignorance—both real and imagined—his ego depends on.

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are not responsible for the subprime meltdown or the economic turmoil that followed. Neither organization issued a single mortgage. Furthermore, it was private-sector capitalists who manipulated the market, who deceived investors, who packaged bad loans. How many questionable securities did Fannie or Freddie rate as AAA? Absolutely zero.

In a time of great crisis, some people are simply unable to stuff their vacuous pride. It is more important to them to blame the object of their long-simmering hatred, to play political games. It is more important to them to see their preferred political affiliations brought to power than finding solutions to the challenges before us.

Indeed, in demanding proof of excessive profits, our man Buffalo seems to forget that while energy prices spiraled and petroleum companies pled expenses as the reason, those corporations were posting record profits.

In his inauguration speech, President Obama invoked First Corinthians, telling Americans that it was time to put aside childish things. And, as many liberals quietly expected, yet hoped against, we see that many of our conservative neighbors have responded, "You go right ahead and do that, Mr. President. We'll just be over here in the corner, complaining like spoiled children."

Yesterday, the GOP elected Michael Steele as its party chairman. The first African American to lead the Republican Party, Mr. Steele acknowledged that his team suffered an image problem. Now it is up to him to prove that his election to lead the nation's conservatives is something more than a cosmetic tweak. "Rush will says what Rush has to say," he told a reporter who asked about the recent exchange of words involving the President and the nation's foremost professional gasbag. "We will do what we have to do as a party." The hint of separation between the right-wing media machine and the party is encouraging, but he also had words for the White House: "How do you like me now?"

Perhaps he will work on putting away the childish things next week.

16. ### Challenger78Valued Senior Member

Messages:
7,536
Dude.
Out of context.
Now is not time for excessive profits, or even growth. We're in a recession, because people put short term profits ahead of common sense.

17. ### BricoleurRegistered Member

Messages:
98
I take offence at companies, esp. banks, making record profits year after year. Nothing wrong with making a profit, but why the excess? Whats with the greed?
Why screw the customers with ever decreasing service on top of larger fees (account keeping, withdrawal fees etc), knowing that we can't really do any more than take our business to yet another one of the fat fucking pigs. I say eat the rich!

Last edited: Jan 31, 2009
18. ### cosmictravelerBe kind to yourself always.Valued Senior Member

Messages:
33,264
Take a look at the gas companies profits last quarter or even all of last year, what does that tell you? They made in excess of over 100 BILLION dolars in NET PROFITS! If that doesn't prove my point I guess you will never understand.

Messages:
36,130

Investors.

20. ### Zakariya04and it wasValued Senior Member

Messages:
6,045
Hey buffalo

this is true but not if the consumer doesnt hav a choice, eg rail tickets to get to work etc etc etc

21. ### Buffalo RoamRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
16,931
We have a shortage of refinery capacity, caused by the Democrats and the Environmentalist shutting down refineries across the U.S., we are competing in a global market which determines the price of crude, and the Chinese and Indian economies are competing for more crude oil, and refined product off the market were we buy our crude and underproduction needs.

The profits were not excess, because that was what the market would bear at that time, and the reason the market would bear that price was because of Government interference.

The rules and regulations from the government have not allowed for a new refinery, since 1982, so we can't even refine all of our own oil production today.

We cannot compete in the fuel markets because we don't have the excess production to ship to a world market to keep the prices down, we are now at the mercy of the production capacity of the world market, and who is willing to pay the mark ups for that refined product.

Europe, India, China.....Head to head competition for constricted supplies, that are constricted because of Government policies that strangle our refinery capacity, and crude oil production.

Now just exactly did the government do to end the price run? not a dammed thing, it was the market, as the price went up people bought less, drove less, and the supplies caught up with demands and the prices fell, and guess what Big Oil is still making their normal 9 to 12 cents on the dollar invested.

Do you think they paid any less for their energy need than we did?

Their cost went up the same as ours did, for every penny, quarter, dollar that energy prices went up, the cost of doing business for Big Oil and Energy went up that exact same amount.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/04/29/markets/thebuzz/

22. ### iceauraValued Senior Member

Messages:
29,805
There is investment, and later there is profit.

Now is the time for investment, not profit taking. For example, the bailout money should be invested, not taken as profit.

That seems reasonable to me.

Unless you think the US Democrats and Environmentalists shut down refineries all over the world, that is nonsense. The shortage of refinery capacity is global, and is exactly what one would expect from a cartel or monopoly industry structure with military backing. Exxon made record profits again this year, mostly on its refinery operations, which it has arranged for maximum profitability and without much restriction from basically non-existent competitive market forces.

Iran has been trying hard to increase its refinery capacity, for example. Exxon's pet government finds that prospect not to its liking.

Last edited: Feb 1, 2009
23. ### madanthonywayneMorning in AmericaRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
12,461
While I agree with the main point Obama was making (no executive whose business was just bailed out by the governemnt deserves a bonus), I don't like the broader "profit is evil" demonization of business rhetoric.