Obama’s executions without judicial review

You have never provided an alternative workable solution. Pragmatism be damned. In your tidy sheltered world, lawyers and legalese somehow remedy an untenable situation.

You have no qualms taking out the terrorist icon in Abbottabad, but extend sanctuary to his minions in Yemen who indoctrinate, inculcate, and facilitate.

Inexplicable :shrug:

 

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Protesting about insidious laws like the Patriot Act is actually as far from school-girl as one can get. Running to Big Brother scared of a couple goat f*ckers that got one over on us, now that's a school girl. See, I don't fear the goat f%ckers. Most are illiterate dip-shits who live in mud huts on the other side of the planet. At best they're lucky to be able to eat. If they're really fortunate they can make the squiggles make noises in their head if they really try hard. Other than that they spend their time doing what gfoat f%ckers do - f%cking their goats :shrug:

That's not really the type of person I'm scared of. I'm much more worried about the government who took my god damn toothpaste off me. My government who forced a 99 year old grandmother to remove her colostomy bag. The government who steals from me both through my tax and through my currency. The government who wouldn't miss an opportunity to pass a "Patriot Act" as soon as the school girls were wetting their panties.

 

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I really don't know what to say if you're OK with our government passing laws like the Patriot Act. Some people like the taste of cud and others don't I guess. That minion was a US Citizen. He could have been processed under US Law like any number of millions of other dipshit US Citizens. So, lets not make it about the camel f%cker in Yemen. This is about the fact that a US civil servant ordered a hit on another free US Citizen.

And, the fact is, he was just an excuse to push the law. See, they pushed it and no one stopped them, no one made a fuss, so, next time they'll go one step further. That's the way it goes. Until one day YOU'RE the one saying SIR to the police, when it used to be the other way around.

Oh well, it's just history repeating itself as the US implodes. Thank the Gods I got out when I could.

 

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Prosecutors could not have ameliorated this threat.

You constantly whine about government control, and then turn around and bitch even more when government control is absent.

Hopefully, those Gods will conspire to keep you out.

 

Are you serious? We fought a freaken Civil War, WWI against the Germans, WWII against the Germans AND Japanese, Korean and Vietnam Wars. I'm talking REAL WARS here. AS in Citizens being called up on draft and flown over to fight "Communists" or "Nazis". We did all of this without the POTUS unilaterally assassinating US Citizens. AND NOW with this bullshit War on "Terror" (which we supposedly won if I recall mini-me on an Destroyer praddeling about) we need to resort to killing our of God Damn Citizens in cold blood!?!? AND THEIR TEENAGE KIDS?????

Well, we'll never know now. I personally would like to know exactly what he DID that was worth being assassinated over. Anyone know?

This is what WIKI says: With a With a blog, a Facebook page, and many YouTube videos, he had been described by Saudi news station Al Arabiya as the "bin Laden of the Internet".

Oh and re-branding him as a "Lieutenant General" doesn't wash with me. He was a snot nosed shit head at best. What next, the government says he was the Grand Master Goat F%cking Nutty Butter.... Oooo Oooooo that means we can kill him huh? Talk about silliness.

We live in a civil society with LAW and justice. NOT assassination of dip-shits who whine about the US on their Facebook account.


So, essentially we really don't know IF he did anything because he was killed without a trial. I mean, he may have spoken to some of the hijackers on 9/11. Yeah? And? He spoke to some goat-f%ckers that got one over on us. He should have been tried then. As far as I know preaching about the Great Satan America is what 10% of nutty Christians INSIDE the USA go on about every Sunday. Some say Obama is the Devil's Child come to bring Armageddon. And before that they said the same about Bush. And before that they said the same about Clinton. And on it goes. You can't kill someone just for saying idiotic religious mumbo jumbo and then some of these nutter butters get tired of daisy the goat and get a luck sucker punch on us. THAT is NOT worth giving up MY Liberties over.



Now the government is even monitoring OUR f*cking phone calls, on-line activity (google searches, facebook, emails).... and you're OK with THAT? Do you have any idea how many regulations there are? You are in violation of some of them. It's pretty much impossible not to violate them. Even your shoe leather has a thickness regulation. If someone in government wanted to make your life hell - it'd be hell. It's happening right now. Someone wants to build on land they bought - neighbors didn't like it, called up a mate, passed a "regulation" and made their life absolute hell on earth. That's the America we live in.

And you have the gall to suggest "I'm" the one with wet panties?!?! Grow some gods damn balls and stand up for yourself. It's like you WANT to live in a police state?

That's unAmerican.


I'm not bitching when Government control is absent - I want it absent! Particularly when it infringes on my personal liberty. Or could. When I ring home, on occasion the person on the other side pauses and then says some stupid "code word" for, we'll say, pot. Instead of 'I got stoned on the weekend' they'll say ... 'yeah, I got, uhhh uhhh, you know, smoked and .. well you know'.

Now, I personally find this completely sick. Americans, salt of the earth people, are now actually terrorized BY their own god damn government.

Pathetic.



Well, you should be happy. It's your world we live in. Not mine. There's no freaken way I'd create such a sick insane pathetic place to live in. Whatever was the great experiment called the USA is dead AFAIC. We can call this America 2.0

Luckily for me, I'm nearer to the top of the feeding chain. I don't think it'll be me or mine that have much to worry about. Luck and opportunity was there and I somehow made it through to the other side. And I started out way on the bottom. Single mother $25 a week.

Anyhow, I've visited many Communist nations and I know what it's like when the government bloats to the size of the USA and what it's like to see people fear their government. We now have the biggest per capita prison population on the planet. The biggest government too. That's no coincidence. Mark my words, you will rue the day you rolled over and accepted this because your children are going to live in an America with much less freedom of expression and much more fear of their government. It's already here. Just get one police officer in a bad mood - you're done.

AFAIC it's past the point of no return I'm under no illusions on that one. There is no turning this ship around.

 

Oh and as for conspiring to keep my out? Give me a break. If you want to live in a land where everyone trips over themselves to please Dear Leader I can name a few countries you might want to visit. I'm a natural born American so I can't loose my Citizenship. At least for now. Maybe you'd like to change that too? How about the government gives a test every few years? Pass it and you can keep your Citizenship don't and you drop down to legal resident and then maybe to legal serf.

 

Quite frankly, I wouldn't want your paranoid persona within a click of me.

 

"Patriot Act"
That doesn't insult you?


Well look, all nations that start out with limited small government become immensely wealthy. They all grow government. There has never in history been an exception recorded anywhere. All devalue their currency. Rome at the beginning had 98% silver in their coins and at the end <3% silver. They all slowly rot from within. The rise and fall of nations. We have one of the largest governments in existence. We're rapidly devaluing our currency. We're over reaching with our army - hell, we can't even win in shitty Afghanistan and haven't won a war in nearly a century. We have the largest per capital prison population. We've just started assassinating US Citizens. A first, in over 200 years.

I've lived in enough countries and have enough experience to know the US has passed high point and is on the slow decent downward. It's not a maybe, it has. The rise and fall of nations. I'm sure you think America is immune. We're somehow special. The Shining Citadel..... haha.... Keep thinking that if it makes you happy.

 

@Xotica

Michael isn't really being paranoid. The National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) recently signed by Obama, goes hand in hand with judicial executions. It allows presidential authority for indefinite detention of American citizens arrested on American soil, including arrests by members of the Armed Forces which I believe contradicts the Posse Comitatus Act (Sec. 15. From and after the passage of this act it shall not be lawful to employ any part of the Army of the United States, as a posse comitatus, or otherwise, for the purpose of executing the laws, except in such cases and under such circumstances as such employment of said force may be expressly authorized by the Constitution or by act of Congress).

NDAA suspends due process and habeas corpus, as well as other rights guaranteed by the 5th and 6th Amendments to the U.S. Constitution and you don't have be an active terrorist either, Under Section 1021 of the NDAA, foreign nationals who are alleged to have committed or merely “suspected” of sympathizing with or providing any level of support to groups the U.S. designates as terrorist organization or an affiliate or associated force may be imprisoned without charge or trial “until the end of hostilities.” Sure there were members of Congress who were 'troubled' by section of the law but sure enough they all soon got in line and backed it claiming they will make sure there is continued over-sight in how its carried out. In this sense Obama is much worse than Bush who never even stretched the Patriot Act to this extent. The problem is it can be used under any future president for any purpose. Michael is right that allowing any government (even this one) to have far reaching extended power over its own people is dangerous. It plays against history that teaches us that you cannot trust any government especially when they begin slowly to enact new laws that can be used against its own people, to think otherwise is not paranoid but simply naive.


From Wiki:

"The NDAA allows "persons arrested and detained according to the provisions of section 1021, including those detained on U.S. soil, whether detained indefinitely or not, are required to be held by the United States Armed Forces..."

"Section 1021 and 1022 have been called a violation of constitutional principles and of the Bill of Rights. Internationally, the UK-based newspaper The Guardian has described the legislation as allowing indefinite detention "without trial [of] American terrorism suspects arrested on US soil who could then be shipped to Guantánamo Bay;" Al Jazeera has written that the Act "gives the US military the option to detain US citizens suspected of participating or aiding in terrorist activities without a trial, indefinitely." The official Russian international radio broadcasting service Voice of Russia has been highly critical of the legislation, writing that under its authority "the US military will have the power to detain Americans suspected of involvement in terrorism without charge or trial and imprison them for an indefinite period of time;" it has furthermore written that "the most radical analysts are comparing the new law to the edicts of the 'Third Reich' or 'Muslim tyrannies.'" The Act was strongly opposed by the ACLU, Amnesty International, Human Rights First, Human Rights Watch, The Center for Constitutional Rights, and The Council on American-Islamic Relations, and was criticized in editorials published in The New York Times and other news organizations."

 

On December 31 and after signing the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012 into law, President Obama issued a statement on it addressing "certain provisions that regulate the detention, interrogation, and prosecution of terrorism suspects". In the statement Obama maintains that "the legislation does nothing more than confirm authorities that the Federal courts have recognized as lawful under the 2001 AUMF". The statement also maintains that the "Administration will not authorize the indefinite military detention without trial of American citizens", and that it "will interpret section 1021 in a manner that ensures that any detention it authorizes complies with the Constitution, the laws of war, and all other applicable law".

 

Pray tell, how CAN Obama guarantee how future POTUS will "interpret" this Law?


Also, is Obama really in charge? He's only in there for 4 - 8 years. The people who back him and donate to his reelection are there for familiar generations and will be there long after he's hit the sell-my-speech-circus. They certainly have a vested interest in maintaining their money and power. Why wouldn't they? We're talking billions of dollars in many cases. Who's to say that there may not come a day when they buy/donate to the election for a different president - one who is more than willing to use this law against Citizens who are opposed to the wealthy elite's POV? Everyone here keeps thinking it's the government who is going to "save them from the rich and powerful" (like scary Steve Jobs). I maintain it's the government you need to worry about. A wealthy person can't legally initiate force against you - but, the politicians in his pocked can. That SHOULD worry you.

 

You don't seem to understand how this Government Thingy we have works.

Obviously Obama can't say what the next Potus will do, but then who cares?

Congress wrote this law and they can and would rewrite it/revoke it, if it is abused by the Executive branch.

Why would they?
Because the people who elect them every few years would get pissed off.

Why would they?
Because the law was obviously being used against them.

But it's not now.

And while there will ALWAYS be some people who claim to see the darkest sides of any law, and claim the country is sliding down the drain, but the majority of people are rational and see that the law was needed and while it could possibly be misused, as long as it is used in the proper context, will allow it.

So if in fact the Govt started putting US citizens in jail without a trial or suspending Habeus Corpus for US Citizens, then I'm right with you demanding the law gets repealed, but as long as it's being used as it should be, then these bleats of "the sky is falling" are just hysteria.

 

For somebody whose whole schtick is hysteria over militarism run amok, you sure do engage in a lot of jingoism. Are you unaware that the same people who refer to Arabs/Muslims/terrorists as "goat fuckers" are the same people whose xenophobia and rage fuel the militarism? Or was that supposed to be some kind of ironical reversal of that particular term? If it was the latter, it failed badly. Let's just give the whole "goat fucker" thing a nice funeral and move on, how about?

 

I used the term goat-f%cker in a different sense. To show the impotency of the big scary "Terrorists" 80% of America is willing to give away our civil liberties for because their TV (most people's BFFL best friend for life) told them so.

I on the other hand am saying, ah no, these little goat F%cking mudbrick goat F%ckers are not scary and contrary to your friend Mr TV are no where near worth giving away one wink of sleep over let alone civil liberties. I mean, we probably could have shipped over our softest sheep and ended their dreams of a World Calphate right then and there as most would never leave their mud hut or cave.

 

In the first place, the notion that "they" are pathetic and Other is as much a part of the jingoism as is the notion that "they" are dangerous. You may be arguing that "they" aren't so dangerous, but only to the extent that they're regarded as pathetic and beneath "us." Which would be to say that it's still okay to ride roughshod over them, it's just not a priority to do so. This is not helpful. It's nasty.

In the second place, you keep saying that what you're really offended by is the targetting of US citizens like Al-Awlaki, who by definition aren't confined to "over there." Dude was educated here and preached here for many years. He was the in-country "spiritual advisor" to the 9/11 hijackers. He is not a good example of your (muddled) point.

 

New heights of being politically correct, cant call terrorist a goatfucker ? lol

 

"Goatfucker" is a nasty racial slur. Does the fact that somebody is a terrorist, or a murderer, or whatever make it okay for you to be a racist fuck?

When did "two wrongs don't make a right" become part of "PC?"

Also, the dude in question was arrested repeatedly for soliciting prostitutes here in the USA, so if you call him a "goatfucker" you're calling American ladies-of-the-night "goats."

 

I lean to agree with you on your statements. Who does anyone know that has been thrown in prison without a trial? It doesn't happen often to American Citizens because I think the government is, overall, doing a good job.
:shrug:

 

I understand your "they" comment if I were to label everyone - but I'm not, in this instance I'm specifying the people who specifically want to harm the USA or dream of infringing on my liberties.

If they don't want to do that - they're not in the "Goat F@cker" category, even if they do happen to live in a mud-house or cave.

How would YOU denigrate "Terrorists"? Some of these people would kill you in an instant. Some are preparing to kill you, even now. Is it now immoral to refer to people who wish me dead in a derogatory term? We just wipe that little bit of culture out and away? Fink just doesn't have the umph I'm looking for. Or is Fink .... to much too?

As for Al-Awlaki - he was a US Citizen, that trumps him being a Terrorist, although he was a Goat-F@cker. That's not racist - it's similar to the word "RedNeck" - you can be white, black, blue, green and still be a redneck. Redneck is a way of thinking. This is what I mean by Goatf@cker - a small minded idiot who thinks selling the Skydaddy fallacy off to a would be Goatf@cking suicide bomber is moral. It's not - hence the denigration.

 

This would on the face of it seem true - except people don't. Instead they get used to things. Most don't question their government. Most just accept that things are the way they are.

That's why it's so hard to maintain a democracy or republic.

I'd point to the Income Tax and Federal Reserve. One was created to maintain the other - yet most Americans are clueless. The US government pulled this little stunt on Christmas Eve. Similar to Obama pulling his little stunt on New Years Eve. Soon people get used to it. Oh, it's all backed up by gold - don't worry about it. Then the roaring 20s and oh my gods look at this great system. By the Great Depression people just accepted the Fed even though it was killing them. The government was literally paying people to kill their livestock and destroy their produce - as people starved to death. Yet 2 + 2 seems, even to this day, well beyond the reach of most Americans. Then Nixon uncoupled us from gold. People are now, so used to USD many, even the ones you'd think would, do not (I'd argue can not) question their use.

Take you for example. I'm 99.5% sure that you, given your profession, would have opposed USD in 1913. You would have been used to and worked in a free market currency and would have understood why it was important to maintain. Not now. You grew up with USD, that's all you've ever known and you can't picture a world without USD.

:shrug:

Even when you get these blatantly stupid "Economic Theories" out of our current system. Like cheap sugar is bad. Price deflation is bad. Business owners are bad. Big government is good. Taxing private income is good. Killing Citizens is good, $20 Trillion of debt is good, fiat is freedom, gold is slavery....

Yup, sign of the times.

I'm thinking 5 generations, maybe 120 years or so, to go back to being sensible.



OH, you mentioned that the last 100 years wasn't bad for the US. So? The previous 100 wasn't either. It was better come to think of it.