Obamacare Lite = Trumpcare

Discussion in 'Politics' started by joepistole, Mar 7, 2017.

  1. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    The American Health Care Plan or TrumpCare is going to be done in three phases. Phase one, which is what everyone is talking about, is not the entire plan. Phase one is being called ObamaCare Lite, since many things are kept in place, in phase one. One reason is a smooth transition without lost services. The other reason they are doing it this way is they know the Democrats will try to interfere and try to undermine them, no matter what they do. If they did the entire health care change, all at once, the Democrats could filibuster such a plan, and nothing will get done. But as three phases, each of the three phases can be put through the system, via Parliamentary procedures, that the Democrats can't interfere with, in the same way. They can still do the fake news things but not the parliamentary thing.

    ObamaCare was done as one giant plan, but it required political procedure games by Harry Reid and Democrats, which included promises of pork barrel to buy votes. The Republicans don't want to pay the pork barrel costs, since another parallel goal is to shrink government and reduce the role of special interests, both which add costs. Their emphasis is on the citizen and tax payer, and not the lobbyists. Some of the contrary Republicans are positioning themselves for pork barrel, but with the three phase approach, this will be minimized but not zero. Trump is saving taxpayer money up front.

    Once all three phases are done, we will have a new heath care system, that also helps set the stage for upcoming legislative reforms in entitlements, regulations and the tax code. ObamaCare was woven into the tax code, into the regulatory system, and was set up as an entitlement for millions of people. The new system is about heath insurance and not health entitlement. The three phase approach will cut these health care three tentacles, away from main budgets. Once there is clean repeal, tax, regulations and entitlements can be dealt with in a more comprehensive way.

    One provision of the new health plan is one will be able to choose a health care plan that is tailored to you. A young single person will be able to pick a plan that does not have to pay for children and other things they may never use. If their status changes, they can change into a family plan. Or a religious person will not have to buy a plan that pays for abortion. Plans with abortion will still be available for those who will use this service. By tailoring choice to need money can be saved for each citizen.

    One of the reason costs are so high is the current system forces you to buy stuff you do not need. This raises your costs. Because the costs are so high, to make economic sense, people tend to use the system, more, which further compounds cost for everyone.

    An analogy to this affect is cable TV. If you could choose a cable TV plan, with only your top 10-20 favorite stations, the price would need to come down since you use less. Right now, cable TV plans may offer 500 stations, most of which you do not watch. You may only watch 10-20 and maybe scan others, but you pay for 500. On the other hand, if you could get a plan with only 25 cherry picked stations costs have to come down. The Trump team expects entrepreneurs to buy bulk cable with 500 stations and distribute this into 5-10 plans of 50-100 stations, each at a fraction of the costs, while still making a profit and not using extra cable bandwidth.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2017
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  3. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    Too late for Clinton, Bill.....too late for aca under Obama who first forced people to buy health insurance----------always "too late" for anyone who would rather play into an erisian/discordian divisiveness shortcut to a dystopian society than seek actual solutions.

    Do you not understand that we are all being played?
     
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  5. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    And you do? If they don't want it, they wouldn't be demanding it. They cannot do anything about affordability. They didn't have a say in how our healthcare system was constructed. The American healthcare system has been a monopolistic healthcare system for almost a century.

    Even if we had a magic wand and could make the American healthcare remove all the monopolistic impediments, it would be decades before we would see a truly competitive market place, and it wouldn't solve our healthcare problems. Medical schools would need to be created and physicians need to be trained. It would make healthcare cheaper. But even so, some people wouldn't be able to afford healthcare. But that's not going to help the person who has cancer or some other medical challenge today.
     
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  7. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    And you think, that makes things better? It doesn't. Phase II and III eliminate the subsidies upon which millions of people depend. When you earn 20 thousand dollars a year, you cannot afford to pay 15 thousand dollars a year on healthcare insurance premiums.

    Democrats interfere...? You mean like filibuster like Republicans did? Trumpcare is still Obamacare lite even with Phases II and III. Trumpcare is just a hollowed out version of Obamacare. It does nothing to control costs, and in fact, it actually increases costs. The problem with Obamcare is the risk pool. Democrats put in some outs which allow people to manipulate and game the system. Trumpcare would exacerbate the problems with the risk pool. Trumpcare would narrow the risk pool to high risk individuals. No matter how they want to describe it, that's what Trumpcare does.

    You mean the the same kinds of political games Republicans have played for the last 8 years? Let me remind you Trump promised affordable healthcare for everyone. That's not what his healthcare plan delivers. Trump made promises to get elected,i.e. to buy votes, and now his healthcare plan doesn't live up to his promises. Buy reducing the subsidies and the tax credits, Trump is actually increasing taxes on the very people he promised he would help.

    According to the best available estimates, once completed, 15 - 20 million people would be left uninsured. Millions of people would die. And you feel good about that?

    And that's not the case today? Under Obamacare there are a wide variety of plans available even if you live in the 5 states in which only one provider exists. The problem with fewer providers exists mostly in rural areas, but that extends to more than just healthcare insurance. Rural areas also have a problem finding healthcare professionals.

    Under Obamacare if you status changes you can change plans. And there are religious exemptions in Obamacare.

    Well, that's kind of the whole thing behind insurance. If you are lucky, you won't collect on your insurance and "you will not need the insurance". If you are unlucky, you collect on your insurance. People need insurance to because they have a risk.

    Costs aren't too high because people are forced to buy insurance they don't need. Just because you don't want to insurance against a risk, it doesn't follow that you don't need insurance.

    Well, its because of all the other channels that you can get the channels you want.
     
  8. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Trumpcare is yet another case in which Trump has failed to deliver on a promise. Trump promised universal healthcare. He promised more care and less expensive care. He promised affordable care and decried Obamacare for being unaffordable. But he would fix it. He would provide better care and make it more affordable, because don't you know, he is a miracle worker. If not God, he is damn close....remember? Trumper has once again failed to deliver on his campaign promises.

    Trumpcare doesn't cover everyone. He weeds out subsidies which makes healthcare more expensive and less affordable for most Americans. The irony here is the people Trump is screwing the most are the people who elected him POTUS. If Trumpcare is made the law of the land, they have no one to blame but themselves. It's not like they weren't told. But I'm sure these geniuses won't blame themselves; they never do. They will invent another fiction to blame. Maybe it will be RINO 9,999,999.2 all over again.
     
  9. Oystein Registered Senior Member

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    I don't hear the word "affordable" anymore when Trumpcare is discussed. I hear the word "accessible". Those two words are NOT the same.
     
  10. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    I thank what that means is... insurance will be available to those who deserve it... i.e... those who can afford it.!!!
     
  11. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Trumpcare has been sent to the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) for analysis, and is expected to release its findings shortly. It's very obvious Republicans aren't looking forward to the CBO analysis. Ryan has admitted, fewer people will have healthcare insurance under Trumpcare. That's pretty obvious. When you take away the subsidies which allow people, especially poor people, to purchase healthcare insurance more people will not have insurance. There will be more sub-par insurance offerings, i.e. healthcare insurance than provides little if any real coverage.

    So Republicans on the speaking circuit are discounting the CBO, and they aren't being honest about it. I guess we have to expect that from Republicans. In addition to not covering as many people, I expect Obamacare will cost more. I fully expect the CBO report to be a big embarrassment for Republicans, and I think Republicans do to. That's why they are trying to discredit the CBO before it releases its findings.
     
  12. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    The CBO released their analysis and as expected, it isn't good. If implemented, 14 million people will lose their coverage next year and 58 million will not have healthcare 10 years from now. Healthcare costs would rise by 20% for each of the next 2 years. That's Trumpcare. Contrary to Trump's promises, it doesn't cover everyone. It doesn't make healthcare cheaper. Republicans were all upset because Obamacare premiums went up; well, that's nothing compared to Obamacare. And Trumpcare takes 174 billion dollars from Medicare which shortens the life of Medicare by 3 years. Trumpcare is a unmitigated disaster. https://www.cbo.gov/publication/52486
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2017
  13. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    6,568
    A simple tweek which woud allow Trumpcare to have lower premiums:::

    An no... smart-Azzes... it dont involve a death panel... lol.!!!

    Whats needed is a set age for *everbody to voluntary receive ther grate reward.!!!

    An for those who sign the death panel contract... on the end of life date they will never have to worry about healthcare (or anythang else) agan... an bein a merciful health plan... everbody will be allowed to change ther mind... they just wont receive healthcare any more.!!!

    I have calculated that an expiration time of 69 years old woud do the trick (subject to change as necessary).!!!

    *Some exemptions may apply
     
  14. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Trumpcare: Get rich quick or die!
     
  15. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    #trumpcare | #WhatTheyVotedFor

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    Maybe instead of a Death Panel, we can work in a Lightning Round:

    It struck me as normal, somehow, to watch my girlfriend enter an online sweepstakes that would help decide whether or not she would be able to afford to buy medicine. Only now, watching the Republican establishment dismantle the Affordable Care Act, has this struck me as cruel.

    I don't remember the specifics of the promotion, but I remember that it was a monthly trivia contest run by an online cystic fibrosis pharmacy. Answer the questions right, and your name was entered to receive $500 toward your meds. I'd ask Katelin about it now, but she is dead.


    (Koebler↱)

    You know, one player gets premium care, the other is put out of their misery.

    Shocking, I know.

    We're Americans. What we really want is The Running Man.

    I know, I know. Schwarzenegger. Sometimes irony is simply unavoidable.

    And in those cases it is mostly self-inflicted.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Koebler, Jason. "Remember the People America's Healthcare System Has Already Killed". Motherboard. 13 March 2017. Motherboard.Vice.com. 13 March 2017. http://bit.ly/2n3Imz8
     
  16. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    5,160
    Didn't ObamaCare take over a year to enact? Trump have been in office less than 100 days. Did you complain about Obama and his promise? The America Heath Care plan has three phases to avoid games and scams by the Democrats. It is still ahead of the Obama schedule. It is not designed to be an entitlement plan based on crony capitalism, since that will lead to a disaster, like ObamaCare.

    Picture what happened the last time the Democrats promised freebies for all. This led to the housing crisis. The Democrats pushed the affordable housing plan, starting around President Clinton, which then continued through Bush. The Democrats, in the very beginning, pressured the banks to make housing loans to people who the banks expected to default. The banks resisted. To give the banks incentive, to go against common sense free market principles, the government said it would underwrite those shaky loans. The crony capitalism, led to many banks over lending and taking advantage of the security provided by the government, which caused the demand and price of homes to sky rocket. This results in people defaulting, as predicted at the beginning, until the entire system collapsed. The same was in affect for ObamaCare due to promise of freebies, and then corny capitalism for insurance companies and the health care industries. When the free market is undermined, expect a bubble then disaster.

    Trump is going back to free market, just like the housing industry went back to free market. You do not double down and repeat the same mistakes. What may happen, will be like the housing market. Those who rode the free train and had a temporary windfall in a new home, may find themselves no longer owning anything. They may not have to pay back what they were given. One does not own free health care anymore than you own a house where you make no payments.
     
  17. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, it took over a year to enact Obamacare. Is there a point buried in there somewhere? Trump hasn't enacted Trumpcare either. He hasn't repealed Obamacare as he promised to do on day one. Obama never promised to enact Obamacare on day one or day two, or even a year. Obama wasn't foolish enough to make that promise. Only a fool would make such a promise and only a bigger fool would believe it.

    Yes, Trumpcare has three phases, but not to avoid "scams by Democrats", but because it only gets worse for healthcare consumers. Phase II and phase III aren't any better. There is no magic in phase II or phase III. The reason Trump didn't submit phase II and phase III to the CBO for analysis is because it would have made the numbers even worse.

    Well, the Democrats aren't promising freebies for all. Facts are important outside the right wing echo chambers which you frequent. And the "housing crisis" wasn't caused by left Democratic freebies. It was caused by the deregulation of the banking industries and both parties are responsible for that deregulation. That deregulation effort was led by Republicans and signed by a Democratic president. So both parties were responsible for the "housing crisis". Democrats never pushed banks to make bad loans. Remember, Sciforums is not a right wing echo chamber. Facts matter here. Banking deregulation was crony capitalism, and Republicans are at it again. For years Republicans have tried, and been successful, in removing the banking regulations imposed by Democrats after the crisis to prevent another Great Recession and now that they have control of Congress, they have promised even more deregulation which could set us up for another "housing crisis".

    That's a myth. There hasn't been a free healthcare market in the US for almost a century. The healthcare industry has been regulated by states and the federal government for at least that long. The government has been actively restricting and controlling the number of suppliers and their products and services for that long. Further, there isn't one successful free market healthcare system in the world. You would think if your argument had merit, you could point to one successful free market healthcare model. But you can't because none exists.

    What Republicans are doing is going back to rationing healthcare by wealth. If you aren't wealthy, you don't get healthcare. What Republicans are doing is protecting the previous monopolistic US healthcare system which has made the US healthcare system twice as expensive for less healthcare and increasingly inferior quality. What Republicans are doing is going back on their campaign promises. Trump promised his devotees universal healthcare. Trump promised Americans better care for less money. That's not what his Trumpcare program does. The CBO forecasts rates will go up 20% next year and 20 in the following year. Premiums will go up by at least 400% for Trump's key demographic group, lesser educated older white males in year one, because Trump will take away their subsidies in order to give tax breaks to the wealthy: folks like himself.
     
  18. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    I like Trumps conference on this: he is basically saying leave Obamacare as is "let it fail" and openly says striping it will piss off the population.
    I don't know the origional video but I heard it here at 53:45


    Ok Trump, then just veto the republican measure.
     
  19. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    #trumpcare | #WhatTheyVotedFor

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    Republican family values: Click to swerve on the curve.

    I liked the bit with McConnell, seven years after Beltway Republicans began devising their alternative for the Affordable Care Act—not including time during the legislating when they failed to provide an alternative—the Senate Majority Leader could not answer even basic questions about the plan, instead pointing out, "Well, it just got launched yesterday."

    Blood and milk↱. The turnip truck is smashed all over the road.
     
    ElectricFetus and joepistole like this.
  20. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    Why is the senate majority leader a turtle? And is that trump in the background? GET YOUR FUCKING TONGUE BACK IN YOUR MOUTH!

    How I found a better video:



    Yeah it wasn't great, Universal Healthcare would be great, but by all means let it "implode" by its self.
     
  21. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    6,568
    One of the GOPs prollems is ther obsession wit sex-control which always leads to stoopidity... e.g.... they dont want non-straight consenting adults to make love... an they want to screw people wit Trumpcare who dont want to be screwed.!!!
     
  22. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    23,850
    Yep. And I understand by whom - a matter you seem to have overlooked.
    The actual solutions to the healthcare mess would include expanding Medicare to cover everybody, Wellstone's single payer setup, something like that. It would have been fairly easy to do that a few decades ago - the major insurance corporations have grown so much larger since then, and the Republican Party so much stronger, that such a disruption of their influence would be an enormous shock.
     
  23. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    34,509
    (1) Mr. McConnell is always a turtle; my sister-in-law resents him for this because she named her turtle after the turtle this joker out of Kentucky happens to resemble.

    (2) There is a little bit of distortion; I don't remember exactly where I pulled the photo from, but it's credited to Mark Wilson/Getty images, and a version of the untailored is available in ... (weird, maybe that's where I got it, given my date stamp, and all) ... er ... ah ... right: "The 4 ways Republicans can dismantle Obamacare, explained" (Vox.com, 10 Nov. 2016)↱ ... (and I just checked; that is the date of the photo, as well).

    But, yeah, the senior U.S. Senator from Kentucky has long resembled a particular chelonid cartoon character.
     

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