Obama's Indoctrination Attempts

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Norsefire, Apr 22, 2009.

  1. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090422/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_obama_national_service

    Sounds alot like Hitler.

    The hidden message is: get them all to be indoctrinated and blindly loyal to the state.

    Obama is the kind of person that likes the term "productive citizen"; whereas I am extremely offended by it.
     
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  3. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    you lose the debate under Godwin's law. Debate ended, please lock thread

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    He is a brillant oritor which is ovious. So was King and so was Hitler, that fact alone means nothing except that he is good at swinging public debate in a way Bush and Gorden Brown havent been.
     
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  5. CutsieMarie89 Zen Registered Senior Member

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  7. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    National service is like Hitler? WFT? I guess the Boy Scouts are the Hitler Youth? Nothing wrong with giving back to your country.
     
  8. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    spidergoat i love debating national service vs community service because people always seem to assume that they are the same thing (which is WRONG)
     
  9. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    The reason productive citizen offends me is because the term assumes that your existence is to be "productive" for the "government" which you "belong to"

    I am not saying it states this outright, but that is the underlying meaning. As if you exist for nothing more than to be productive for the state. How about "free individual" as opposed to "productive citizen".

    It is the same propaganda terms the Soviets used

    What has the country given you? War? Racism? Division? Slavery? My fellow human beings, ask not what you can do for your country, but what your country can do for you...which is next to nothing.

    I agree with you here, amazingly.

    I think COMMUNITY service, like charity and such, among free individuals in neighborhoods and such is a good thing. "National" service implies service to the state, not to fellow human beings, and thus is something else altogether
     
  10. jps Valued Senior Member

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    This is an interesting point. "Productive citizen" implies productivity in the context of one's status as a citizen, a member of a state. Whereas "productive person" allows for differing conceptions of productivity, "productive citizen" would seem to be limited to productivity that contributes to the state.

    Well, yeah, in a sense, but also a free education, roads, the fire department, and public transit. The things you list, excepting war, didn't so much come from the government as reflect the sensibilities of the people being governed, and they have been dwindling over time both in the government and among the governed. The things I listed definitely came from the government.
     
  11. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    I do not exist to be productive for the state.



    Nothing the government provides is "free". It is funded with money forcibly taken from you

    No, they came from your money that was taken from the government. Understand the difference
     
  12. jps Valued Senior Member

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    I haven't given the government nearly enough money to build a public education system, interstate highway system, and fire department.(actually, as a full time student, I've given the government very little money)

    No individual could provide theses things alone, hence we voluntarily give a portion of our income to the government so that collectively we can do what individually we cannot.
     
  13. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    Yes, not you alone; you and everyone else the government plunders


    And no one is proposing that a single individual can provide these things alone. Rather, groups of individuals working together can
    Voluntarily? How is taxation voluntarily?

    Oh, I'm sure you will say "you can leave"...but I don't want to. And the state has no claim to the land. It is illegitimate and kept up with violent force

    And taxation is through force and legal obligation. Voluntary? It is about as voluntary as getting mugged in the street

    And again, does mcdonalds operate because of a single individual? No...
     
  14. CutsieMarie89 Zen Registered Senior Member

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    I guess I don't get it. What country wants unproductive citizens? I imagine it would be much of a country to live in or much of a country at all.
     
  15. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    you agree that it would be acceptable for a country to enforce a measure of public service on its youth? wow im amazed concidering im not even sure I agree with myself on it

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    However im alot MORE likly to agree to that than compulsery service in the millatry (national service). Requiring kids to join st john's, the red cross, the scouts, work in a homeless shelter or the RSPCA ect for a set time period as service to the community is in my opinion quite reasonable. However forcing them to go out and kill and\or die is NOT acceptable
     
  16. Pandaemoni Valued Senior Member

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    By that logic, McDonald's "forced" me to eat lunch at one of their branches today. Oh, sure, you may say "well you could have left" but I didn't want to. Every time you loiter in a store and don't wnat to leave, where shopkeeper says "buy something or get out" he must be stealing from you.

    This is the United States. I understand that you both love everything about it, save for its government which you hate, but no one actually gets separate the two. It's like saying, "I am a Catholic, save that I think the Pope is wrong about everything." There are no "cafeteria Catholics," there are just bad Catholics, and the same is true for Americans.
     
  17. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    First of all, I think Norsefire is Syrian (unless he's moved). Secondly, what the hell are you saying? Anyone who bitches about policies he doesn't like is a "bad American"? We should all march in lockstep and support our furher no matter what he says or does? It's now un-American to question government expenditures?
     
  18. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    no but is un-american to bitch about being criticized for dissent now when you were one of the people attacking those who dissented when it was your guy in office.
     
  19. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    I'm pretty sure I never called the commie, pinko, leftists "un-American".
     
  20. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    If you weren't, I'm sorry but I try to hedge my bets and considering a rather large percentage of righties here did I just assume if someone is a rightie they did until proven otherwise.
    and that's the kind of language I'm talking about.
     
  21. jps Valued Senior Member

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    Is McDonald's really the model you'd like our public services and facilities to follow?
     
  22. CutsieMarie89 Zen Registered Senior Member

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    That's not fair. Not agreeing with certain policies doesn't make you a bad American. If you love everything about America except for this, this, and this. Then that makes you normal doesn't it? Your right about leaving though. When people truly hate their country they leave if they can and usually in droves. I think most Americans like America they just like to complain about stuff.
     
  23. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    LOL. I know it is. I'm jerking your chain. You lefties really need to get your sarcasm detectors fixed.
     

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