Obama's Ratings Fall to 42%

Discussion in 'Politics' started by sandy, May 25, 2010.

  1. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,931
    Sorry I missed your post, the number comes from the increase in national debt under Obama from His first year in office, the deficit in this years budget which the Democrats show no urgency in passing before the election, and the projected costs of Health Care Reform as scored by the CBO, that are now showing the projected cost at over $1 Trillion Dollars.

    A Deficit is nothing more than debt, congress spending money they don't have and pretend they do.
     
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  3. baftan ******* Valued Senior Member

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    1,135
    Thank you for your explanation. However, I didn't ask for what deficit is, or how Democrats show no urgency. I made the maths according to the figures that is given on your post, it just doesn't add up 2.43 trillion claim. I also gave the results of my own search on the issue.

    My question is this: How did you come up with 2.43 trillion deficit, where is this source, can you show us?

    I ask nothing else...
     
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  5. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    16,931
    Well if you had read my earlier posts you would have seen;

    National Debt Up $2 Trillion on Obama's Watch - Political Hotsheet ...
    Mar 16, 2010 ... The debt now stands at $12.6 trillion. On the day Mr. Obama took office it was $10.6 trillion. President George W. Bush still holds the ...

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20000576-503544.html - 76k
     
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  7. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    22,910
    Your are ignoring that fact (among others) that your numbers don't add up.
     
  8. baftan ******* Valued Senior Member

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    1,135
    Unlike your guess, I read your previous post, and the article you submitted below, that's why I had to calculate numbers. Because the figures you have given and the figures presented in the article don't match up. The article suggest (without given any concrete evidence other that latest gossips from Treasury department thing) that the debt was 10.6 trillion dollars when Obama took office. However, your data says that debt was 14.078 Trillion dollars in 2009. There is a considerable gap (around 4 Trillion dollars which is much higher than your 2.43 Trillion dollar figure) you must admit.

    Plus all these numbers (yours and the ones that article gives) doesn't fit the data given by White House (I gave my sources you can find them at #31). There is clearly something fishy is going on. Either White House figures or your figures don't say the truth.

    There is also a slight detail in your table: You gave the estimated debt for 2009 which is 14.078 Trillion dollars, I just mentioned this above. However you missed to give the estimated debt for 2010 In the same table. What I am saying is, your figures doesn't match up with the ones that was given your source article; both of them don't match up the source that I submitted.

    Doesn't this bother you?

    Now you can evaluate these numbers according to... yes, according to what?
     
  9. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,931
    Did you go to;

     
  10. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,931
    More bad news for the joe's recovery theory;


    http://portal.tds.net/news/read.php...ass&action=1&lang=en&_LT=UNLC_NKNWU00L1_UNEWS


    Stocks retreat as Fitch downgrades Spain's debt
    By STEPHEN BERNARD AP Business Writer The Associated Press
    Friday, May 28, 2010 5:04 PM EDT

    The Dow Jones industrials dropped 122 points Friday after Fitch Ratings gave Spain the second downgrade of its credit rating in a month. The rating agency's action was another reminder to traders of the long-term economic problems still facing several European countries, and pehaps the rest of the continent and the global economy as well.


    And the shoes from, Portugal, Italy, have yet to drop, or wait till this shoe from Greece land in the defication;

    http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/EU-Europe-Financial-Crisis/2010/02/05/id/349149

    ..........


    http://portal.tds.net/news/read.php...ion=1&lang=en&_LT=UNLC_NKNWU00L1_UNEWS&page=2

     
  11. baftan ******* Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,135
    That's exactly what I asked for, looks quite satisfactory.
    I hope you can go back and fix your 14 Trillion Debt claim.
    Do you also have a similar type of site that shows income in similar fashion?
    Thank you.
     
  12. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,931
    14 trillion? I know that yesterday the U.S. went past 13 Trillion some time around 12:00 pm.
     
  13. baftan ******* Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,135
    But your estimation is below the 2009 section, not yesterday. And I guess you find 1 Trillion Dollars as a small detail...
     
  14. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,910
    A couple of those pesky little details Buffalo Roam, last I checked Spain was in Portugal were not under President Obama's job description. I believe they lie outside The United States.

    Two, Spain's debt was downgraded from AAA to AA+ with stable outlook. That is still investment grade, and certianly does not indicate a default. And certianly has nothing to do with the recovery Obama and his fellow Democrats started with their recovery/stimulus package.
     
  15. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,931
    A couple of pesky little things, actually one big thing, the Global Economy, and every thing is connected, a Greek farts in Athens, and the U.S. stock market shits in New York.

    The U.S. housing market bubble burst, and Europe has a immediate need for Alka Seltzer.

    The U.S. stock market tips over, and it dominos around the rest of the world.

    The Greek Government riots and the European Union starts to point fingers, and the markets around the world tighten up like a drunks fist around His last bottle of booze before the AA meeting.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2010
  16. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,910
    Man you jump around a lot. Yes, global economies are interconnected...are you just now realizing this fact? And yes we have to go back to those pesky little details, the Greek economy is a about 1 percent of the European GDP...not something for the serious minded to get overly worried about. And Greece is the worst case the EU has to offer.

    The stock market is like a horse...it is really spooky. Horses spook at the silliest things...and so it is with Greece. And smart people/investors will expect the horse/market to spook and will use the opportunity it provides to make a few bucks.

    The fundamentals of the US economy remain strongs in no small part due to President Obama's leadership and the Democratic stimulus plan. And two, there is no serious reason to believe in "contagen". Yeah we dream up some very scary senarios. But then one has to look at reason and probablity and when one filters the possiblilities through the lenses of reason and probablility the prospects are far less ominous.

    Europeans don't have a Tea Party movement that are likely to blow off their left foot got fix the fact they just blew off their right foot - like we have in the US. Europeans while slow and conservative are not idiots and will ultimately do the right thing.

    So I like people like you Buffalo Roam...go a head and spook. I just love it all the way to the bank!

    p/s It is not the stock market, it is the fundamentals of the economy that are important. Stock markets somtimes over react, they are highly emotional because people are higly emotional. If you don't have balls and brains, the stock market is not a place for you...cause you will loose your tail in a heart beat. But ultimately the because the stock markets reflect real value, the fundamentals and real values will become realized.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2010
  17. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,910
    Birth and death impacts on unemployment! Give me a freakin break! The cockamamie excuses you pull out of the hat in an attempt to turn good news into bad is pretty pathetic. The entire article was incoherent nonense from a right which whacko site.

    And you failed again to support your numbers/alegations or how they were related to anything the Democrats did or did not do. When the Democrats took over the economy was shedding almost a million jobs a month. And since the Democrats took over, the jobs numbers have improved signficantly.
     
  18. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,931
    Hay joe? in Sep. 07, the Democrats are in control of the Congress the unemployment rate is 4.7%.....Sep 08 the Democrats are in control and the rate is rising, 6.2%........Oct 09, the Democrats are in control of Congress and the Presidency and the unemployment is still rising 10.1%%......and that is counting only those who are still on the roles.


    UPDATE 1-PIMCO's Kashkari sees falling US growth, home ownership ...
    Apr 19, 2010 ... "Unemployment at around 10 percent is going to remain high in the foreseeable future and then come down only slowly as the global economy ...

    http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSSGE63I07Y20100419

    Federal Government Outpaces Private Sector in Job Creation
    May 3, 2010 ... Federal Government Outpaces Private Sector in Job Creation ... more hiring within the federal government than in the private sector. ... the federal government is a growth industry, while employment at state and local ...

    http://www.infowars.com/federal-government-outpaces-private-sector-in-job-creation/ - 32k

    Again joe, when the Federal Government is the driver of jobs it is not good for the economy, as the Federal Government can only pay for those employees with tax money taken out of the private sector.

    Here it is joe and why we are headed for more trouble these numbers are from 2004 and they haven't gotten any better since then;

    In 2004 the average Federal Employee earned 56% more in wages and benefits than the average private sector employee who pays the taxes for the salaries of the Government workers.

    Since 1990, average compensation has increased 115 percent in the government employees and only 69 percent for private sector, (again let me emphasize (WHO PAY the WAGES of THE GOVERNMENT)

    And as for the average wages increased for government employees that is 104% in government, and only 65% in the private sector and again it is the private sector(WHO PAY the WAGES of THE GOVERNMENT)

    No joe we are not out of the recession yet, we haven't even made up the losses in the economy that have happened since 2009.
     
  19. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,910
    I am not sure what you are trying to say. I do think we need to relook at federal worker compensation and bring it more in line with private industry...and that includes military compensation and retirement (that includes you).

    Additionally it is no news that federal government employment has been a growth industry as well as the healthcare industry. And it didn't start with Obama and the Democrats. Let us remind you that federal job growth first began to exceed private job growth under george II...reversing the trend that existed under Democrat Bill Clinton.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/09/business/09charts.html

    You want to say federal workers are over paid and over compensated...here, here I am with you on that one. And at some point it needs to be addressed.

    If you are saying that unemployment numbers have not gotten any better, then you are just flat out wrong again. I think it is fairly obvious by now that you do not understand unemployment numbers, either that or you just want to push a political agenda.

    I will grant you the unemployment numbers are high and are likely to remain high. And I will grant you that it is likely that the US growth rate will slow to a more moderate rate of 3-4 percent range which is more in line with historical growth rates. But that is not a bad thing. Employment as you have been told on numerous occasions is a lagging indicator.

    I don't understand what you mean with the statement below;
    "No joe we are not out of the recession yet, we haven't even made up the losses in the economy that have happened since 2009".

    2008 GDP was 14.4 Trillion Dollars
    2009 GDP was 14.3 Trillion Dollars
    2010 GDP Current is 14.6 Trillion Dollars.

    So again you are flat out wrong. We have had three succesive quarters of growth...that is a good thing. I will grant you that the recovery is still in its infancy. But it is clear that the economy is in recovery. And the GDP to date exceeds the 2009 GDP. So we have made up for lost GDP.

    http://www.bea.gov/national/index.htm#gdp
     
  20. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,931
    joe what I am saying is, that it isn't that we aren't taxed enough, its that Washington, all of Washington spends to much, and the democrats have done nothing to change a thing, and that spending is what put us where we are today both Democrat and Republican.

    The Democrats haven't done one thing to slow down the spending, or cut the deficits or reduce the debt, all they have done is play accounting games, and use accounting tricks to feel good.

    They are spending trillions of dollars we don't have and are planning to spend trillions more dollars we don't have...........and main street is dyeing, that is who pays the taxes, Main Street, not Wall Street.

    Universal Health Care........Obama and the Democrats lied;

    http://fixhealthcarepolicy.com/tag/trillion-dollar-deficits/

    Left Now Admitting Obamacare Full of Budget Gimmicks

    President Barack Obama again asserted today that his health care plan would be deficit neutral chiding: “The argument that opponents are making against this bill does not hold water.”

    But while the President’s most ardent supporters are trying to explain to each other why the benefits of the bill do not start until 2014, they are openly admitting that Obama’s deficit busting claims are complete fiction:

    The Washington Post’s Ezra Klein: “The delay is a budget trick, an attempt to lower the 10-year cost of the bill at the expense of the very people we’re trying to help.”

    Mother Jones‘ Kevin Drum: “I’m pretty sure the 2014 date is mostly due to budget finagling. This stuff can’t be done overnight, but I’ll bet most of it could be implemented within 12 months, and it could certainly be implemented within 24.”

    Talking Points Memo’s Josh Marshall: “My impression is that some of the delays are there because it makes the budgetary accounting work better in terms of deficit neutrality. And I know the Dems would likely lose critical support without being able to show that the overall bill actually lowers the deficit. But if that’s the main reason, I suspect the legislative authors may be too clever by half since they may be slitting the bill’s and perhaps their own throats in the process.”

    The Costly “Doctor Fix.”

    However, to make their bills appear less costly, the leadership of both houses has removed the doctor fix and its more than $200 billion price tag from their health care bills and presented it as a separate bill. This enables Senator Reid to claim that his bill will reduce the deficit, but the CBO estimates that the House bill (H.R. 3961), combined with the “doctor fix” bill (H.R. 3962), would “add $89 billion to budget deficits over the 2010-2019 period.” The Senate bill plays the same shell game, creating the appearance of deficit reduction by ignoring the inevitable cost of the doctor fix.

    The True Costs of the CLASS Act.

    The CLASS Act is intended to pay for itself with collected premiums. The premiums would produce positive revenues for the government for the first 10 years, appearing to reduce the federal deficit during this time. However, as the CBO points out, while “the program’s cash flows would show net receipts for a number of years, [this would be] followed by net outlays in subsequent decades.” Thus, the CLASS Act appears self-sufficient for the first 10 years but starts running a deficit soon thereafter.

    Unreliable Medicare Cuts.

    ( weren't the Democrats always screaming that the Republicans would cut medicare and leave grandma to die in the streets?)

    The Senate bill depends on cutting Medicare to pay for its $1.2 trillion coverage expansion. Concerning the impact on Medicare enrollees, as CBO Director Doug Elemendorf explained, the bill would require a substantial reduction in the future growth of per capita beneficiary spending over the next 20 years compared to the previous 20 years.

    Proponents of the Senate legislation claim that Medicare spending reductions would result in higher efficiencies. But as James C. Capretta, a Fellow at the Ethics and Public Policy Center, argues, “despite all of the talk of ‘delivery system reform,’ the Senate Democratic plan would not transform American medicine to make it more efficient.”[16] The dramatic savings depend on conventional Medicare provider cuts, not on meaningful Medicare reform. Furthermore, as demonstrated by the ongoing effort to correct the Medicare physician payment formula, it is unlikely that Congress would allow such deep cuts to occur in Medicare.

    Moreover, these Medicare cuts include more than $100 billion in “savings” from changes in Medicare Advantage plans, a move that would directly affect the benefits of millions of seniors. In his analysis of the Senate bill, Foster confirmed that these changes would result in “less generous packages” and that enrollment “would decrease by about 33 percent.”

    (Looks like it is the democrats who are destroying Medicare)
     
  21. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,910
    Actually what put us in our current fiscal state was not just one thing but many things including but not limited too excessive spending; friviolous tax cuts; increased deficit spending; failure to enforce existing laws; failure to govern/regulate appropriately; and the mismanagement of two wars...all of which occured under the Republican watch.
    They Democrats don't have much choice. Either they address the economic situation and fund it appropriately or they plunge the economy into depression which would further excerbate the nations fiscal crisis and we would see rioting in the streets similar to what we have seen in Greece only much worse. So that really is not much of a choice buffalo roam. Democrats have been forced by the economics handed to them by the george II administration to continue spending at high levels for a period of time.
    Where is the proof of any Democratic deception? There is none. The Democrats used the non partisan Congressional Budget Office numbers in all of their estimates. If anything, the CBO numbers are very conservative when it comes to estimated costs and cost projections.

    Republican talking points like to say that benefits of healthcare reform law does not start until 2014. But that quite frankly is false. They started almost immediately. I think you realize that. The insurance exchange does not start until 2014. But there are other stop gap measures in place that cover individuals until the exchanges are up and running. So that Republican line that claims benefits do not start until 2014 and taxes start immediately if frankly a lie. Not all of the taxes start until 2014 or later either. So this claim is just more Republican nonsense.
    Republicans are fond of putting unrelated things into the Healthcare reform law. The so called doctor fix issue is wholely unrelated to the changes enacted by the healthcare reform law. There is nothing in the healthcare reform law that influences or affects the Doctor Fix issue at all. Therefore the Doctor Fix issue should be kept seperate.

    For those who do not know, the Doctor Fix issue relates to the money paid to physicians for Medicare services. Each year for a decade or so Congress has passed a supplemental bill that increases the amount paid to physicians for Medicare services. Now Republicans and physicians want to bundle it together and provide the funding for 10 years and include those numbers in the healthcare reform estimates. But they are not related and therefore should be kept seperate. If there were no healthcare reform law, the Doctor Fix issue would still exist.

    A couple of those pesky details...the CBO did not include any allowance in their estimates for increased efficiencies. Two, the money coming from the Medicare program is the money added to the program in recent years by Republicans which were giveaways to the health insurance and pharmaceutical industries...no bid contracts which offer little value to Medicare recepients but yeild huge cash flows/profits for special interests (e.g. Medicare Plus and Prescription Drug complete with no bid provisions).
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2010
  22. Anarcho Union No Gods No Masters Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,048
    The fastest failure ever was not Obamas (yet.) It was Nixons

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  23. sifreak21 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,671
    BR look at the graph YOU posted it completelyt argues agiasnt your own words!. 2ndly im not going to do the research for you do it yourself and obama is trying to clean up the massive pile of shit GWB left this country in
     

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