On Nothing in a void.

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by Xelasnave.1947, Dec 22, 2016.

  1. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Yes but the Universe is not a void. A void has no space or time. A void is the absence of space and therefore time.
    It depends on how you interpret the term space. But cosmology speaks of the fabric of space, thus is far from being a void. On the contrary, space is filled with "the fabric of space".

    Causal Dynamic Triangulation (CDT) is a proposed theory
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causal_dynamical_triangulation
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2018
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  3. river

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    There is no such thing as this " FABRIC of SPACE " .
     
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  5. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    If you say so....

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  7. river

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    Well think about it . What does the " fabric of space " actually mean ? Nobody so far has been able to actually define it , without any objects being in space .
     
  8. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Do you also disagree with the biblical account of ; In the beginning God created the heavens?

    Apparently the first physical elements were created from the cooling of the heavens, no?
     
  9. river

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    Disagree with the biblical account .

    Not cooling of the heavens , whatever that means , but cooling of plasma energy .
     
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  10. arfa brane call me arf Valued Senior Member

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    There are no objects because objects have structure. The definition of a void as structureless is sufficient; being structureless means having nothing to identify or distinguish. One or more boundaries introduces structure.
     
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  11. river

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    So we can't compare nothing to a void .
     
  12. arfa brane call me arf Valued Senior Member

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    You can compare a boundary to what's inside it, though. You can distinguish "inside" and "outside".

    Besides, if I say "here's some nothing", and "here's some void", I need to be more precise about what I mean, if I want to compare them.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2018
  13. river

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    Then a void has structure .
     
  14. arfa brane call me arf Valued Senior Member

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    Why?
     
  15. river

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    Because it has outside boundries .

    The void is delineated from the rest of space .
     
  16. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    Quantum physics indicated that "nothing" is not a state that exists. There are always quantum fluctuations.
     
  17. river

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    Or chiral condensate
     
  18. arfa brane call me arf Valued Senior Member

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    I think you misunderstand.

    A void has nothing, a boundary is a boundary.

    We deal with an unbounded "absolute" void by saying it's a contradiction; a bounded void is like containing that contradiction. This "containing" isn't something we assign to the interior, it's more natural to assign it to the boundary. What boundary logic assumes is that you can distinguish inside from outside, that's really all it needs.

    Any logic has to have assumptions--something has to be true a priori, and have a false complement.
     
  19. river

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    Mathematics again .

    How would you describe a void in space ?
     
  20. arfa brane call me arf Valued Senior Member

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    Not necessarily, but with any logical system you have to define things--a background, "things" in a foreground, a total space etc. You want precise definitions, not ambiguous or contradictory ones.
    As being fundamentally different to a solitary void, or a void by itself. It has to depend on how space is defined.

    The thing is, a void is zero-dimensional, there is no concept of a dimension because distance is not defined. It has no motion, no relativity, because both those things imply differences, a void is "difference-less".
    It doesn't even have points in it, therefore, because there is no way to refer to such a thing as a point which is "different", or distinguishable.
     
  21. Hayden Registered Senior Member

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    So far no one could observe nothing. As soon as you observe, it becomes something. A part of space can be made free from atoms etc, but should we call that part as having nothing? It would still have some form of electromagnetic presence.
     
  22. river

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    Nonsense
     
  23. river

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    Never will observe nothing , simply not possible .

    Why ? How would any space free from any object have an electromagnetic presence ?
     

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