Orgone Energy

All of your quotations are nice, however they were never meant to be applied to something that's an outright fraud. If those people could see the context you used their statements in, they'd be very ashamed of you.

Instead of blindly defending Kirlian photography, I suggest YOU do some serious research into it. Then you'll understand the silliness of believing in it.

The example I gave you shows just how easy it is to create that "wonderful" energy field. It's nothing more than high-voltage electrostatics. High school kids used to do it all the time in class with a rubber rod and a silk scarf. Only difference is they didn't try to photograph it. No magic "life-force", simple static electricity.

 

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light qhat is your standpoint on orgone energy?
do you believe it exists?
howcomes you see forms of energy as mystical in some senses?




peace.

 

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Hello, Chi,

I maintain an open mind at all times because new things ARE discovered now and then.

However, I've been heavily involved in real science almost my entire adult life, and that's over 40 years. Energy is the ability do do work and it's fairly well understood. There have been all sorts of "energy" proclaimed over many years that supposedly reside outside of science. They are almost always "discovered" by someone who is not a scientist or one that's clearly working outside his field of experience. For example, a medical doctor generally knows very little about science outside of the medical profession.

I've already demonstrated, in my little experiment, how easy it it to reproduce the so-called energy or "life-force" that Kirlian photography is supposed to reveal. Yes, there's energy there all right - common, ordinary electrostatic energy.

Bear with me just a minute because I would like to seriously try to explain something so that everyone can understand it.

Just who are these people that get caught up in Kirlian photography, orgone energy, therapeutic magnets, copper bracelets, and all the rest of the non-scientific fads? Are they dupes, dopes, or dummies?Absolutely not! They are normal, average, everyday people.

And here's the problem. All the regular people in the world have studied just enough science in school and on their own to know many of the technical terms and some amount of how many things actually work. They are not scientists. They have to spend most of their time working on their jobs, raising their kids, paying the bills, trying to buy a car and maybe a house - all of the things that good, average people do every day.

True scientists, on the other hand, spend almost every day working with science - that's their jobs! That's what THEY do for a living. They don't spend every day assembling cars, making toys, working at the grocery store or laundry - all the kinds of jobs that regular people do - they do science every day.

So now a question: who would you suspect really knows more about energy - the check-out clerk at the department store, or someone who has spent decades studying and working with science and scientific applications?

Yet whenever something like this comes up and the scientists address it, do the inexperienced people listen to who should know? Do the people who believe in orgone energy know how - and have they - conducted careful experiments complete with proper controls and rigorously recorded data? I seriously doubt it! I would think that most of them just plop something together (if they even try doing anything at all ) and it either works or doesn't. The vast majority of them don't try anything. They just take everyone else's word for it, or the word of someone who's written a book to sell to make money.

So, one last question: just who, between these people and the scientists, do you suspect is trying to fool whom?

 

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maybe nobody is trying to fool nobody, all i know is orgone energy is Qi (the energy ive been learning to control and master for over 17 years) and im doing experiments on orgone as we speak, i am not trusting anybody but my own 2 eyes, not any fanatics not any scientists, if i truely believe in something i must experience it myself, i am not going to purely debate and talk, im conducting tests and experiments, trying to get results why dont you do some tests on orgone yourself, and this energy dosent go against science atall, infact it actually explains a few things, the 2 opposite energies, think about it the ying and yang theory, it does explain alot of things, im not asking you to think of this in a different frame of mine, im asking you to respect this is actually very logical, and try to explain and conduct tests as a scientist would with other energy forms you cant see, the thought of something "mystical/magical" actually scares respectable scientists off i know this very well, but just because ancient people knew of these energies long ago without tech, and its linked with martial arts, and myths and old taoist folk legend/metaphores/philosophies, dosent make it mysticle and magical, it is at the end of the day just energy forms, realisticly it would be foolish to think there are no other energy forms, or energy forms simular to Qi/orgone, because if science was already familiar with all of the goings on of energy and the universe, we would not be trying to learn more about the universe, because we would know everything.

just try the experiments and judge it after you have looked over the results, a true scientist wouldent dismiss somethign this serious without actually going through vigorous testing.


peace,

 

Right on Empty... You tell 'em!

It is a real shame that the last of the old masters of this energy was so courageous. Too bad, he fell off the edge of the Earth.

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The "two opposite energies", eh? Chi, that's just more mystical double-talk. It's true that there are opposing forces but no opposite energy. There is only energy - pure and simple - although it can take different forms.

Tell you what. I'm not about to waste any of my time and effort on something so silly. But since you are so interested, go right ahead. YOU do the experiments, keep impeccable records , and prove it to all of us, OK? I will gladly post a public apology admitting I was wrong and that you were right.

Not only that, with your new-found energy source, you will become fabulously wealthy!!! (And here's a major hint for you to think about while you're doing it. Just how many people have become millionaires already by using orgone energy, eh? With all those interested people there should be a lot of them - somewhere!)

 

Actually Wilhelm Reich was an actual scientist. In his books he writes about his controlled experiments (that you can try too), much of which cannot be explained by conventional science. For instance, why do plants grow faster in orgone accumulators (which by conventional science would NEVER cause a plant to grow faster). When Wilhelm Reich placed 1mg of radium inside an orgone accumulator, the whole place started glowing. Remember, an orgone accumulator is simply wood, metal, and glass. Orgone energy was considered purely scientific until the FDA started harrassing Reich and his whole organization.

I agree with you on Kirlian photography. I don't see how it can actually work as described.Orgone uses electromagnetism, gravity, and light as mediums but electrostatic activity is not Qi itself. I've seen things on TV where they debunked Kirlian photography, because inorganic, non-living things showed the same, or even greater auras than living things, which makes no sense.

This thread is suppose to be purely scientific. We should try to conduct actual, controlled experiments regarding Qi (Orgone). For instance, I've read that large amounts of Qi can alter the molecular structure of water, if this is true, we should be able to observe this (though I have no resources to do so).

So the question is what experiment can we conduct?

 

The type of glow that inanimate objects give off is called carona discharge. It behaves like a random plasma. Kirlian photography on living organisms causes an aura glow that is a very strange type of carona discharge. The aura around organisms behaves like an organism itself with specified passage ways in it, and it responds to the human will. It is very well ordered and not random. (It also flares at the accupuncure points which depend on chi to work.) The electric fields are illuminating a chi energy that is already there, around organisms, and this chi is holding the other energies in the aura in order and giving it structure and directing it according to the mental will of the human. That is very different from what you get around inanimate objects which is only random plasma.
The aura energy is a vibratory energy. The researchers determined that. Chi itself seems to be vibratory and different frequencies produce different color patterns in the aura; colors respond to mental and emotional states in the kirlian photos. Researchers think chi can mix with and generate the other energies. [Has a 1/r diminishing with distance; other energies diminish with 1/r2 one over r squared.] They shielded against all other energies and the chi effect still got through. It is a different energy.
Remote viewing experiments where people can see accurately in their minds distant places and objects, seem to show that the mental dimension extends throughout space, it is not just in the mind. Your eyes see in the physical dimension, the mind can see in the mental. Chi is in the environment. The mental dimension is in the enviroment to. [Your non physical mind is occupying space in your head. The mental dimension occupies the same space as the physical world.
Strongly suspect ufos use chi for propulsion. Surrounded with it they can go partly or totally in another dimension and defy the laws of physics, which they are observed to do .

 

I will not comment on Kirlian photography as I have not done enough research on it. As for Qi, I suspect that Qi is simply the energy of Yi (intention). I also suspect that things like light, gravity, and Qi all exist on a different dimension and act differently on those dimensions. Even Mike Kaku suspects that light is a vibration from a higher dimension. I hope that we may gain an exact understanding of how Qi works on the physical dimension. If the superstring theory is correct, then there are many things going on which we cannot percieve, so things that are seemingly random may very well be completely ordered.

Wilhelm Reich also suspected that Orgone was used by UFOs as propulsion. He also came up with a theory of negative gravity and an Orgone motor.

 

light what do you mean,


"the "two opposite energies", eh? Chi, that's just more mystical double-talk. It's true that there are opposing forces but no opposite energy."

how is this mystical double talk? what is hard to comprehend here, its very simple, you have an energy that has posative effects on living things, and an energy that has a negative effect on living things, and these energies both need each other to be substained, and i cant believe you just said this, "there are no opposing energies" well mr light im sorry but i have a hard time believing that you personally know everything there is to know about energy, and the forms it resides in, are you telling me that as a scientist the concept of Qi energy is too "out there" ? but you believe in gravity, anti matter, light speed, black holes, etc.



look here, reich was a respectable scientist, he was not a crackpot and his IQ was higher than einsteins, not that IQ has everything to do with bieng a scientist, but people are usually more logical the higher the IQ, he was a very logical man, not a fanatic atall, he simple had theorys about Qi eneegy and he conducted experiments, i find it kinda funny that someone such as yourself light, is quick to dismiss this subject as quickly as you did, withut even conducting experiments, now what scientist in his right mind, would outrightly dismiss an energy form that has good logic and testing availible, wouldent a real scientist only dismiss something like this, after proving it dosent exist, you say its not proven to exist, but i havent seen you "waste your time" and conduct experiments to prove it dosent exist, and i suppose when my test results are prepared and i actually document the findings of orgone, you will dismiss those aswell and say im lying or giving fraudulant test results, so i cant win either way, thats why i wanted people to conduct there own experiments, it only takes about 30 mins to make one of these orgone devices, you wil all trust your own 2 eyes, but probably wont trust me and my results, its kinda infuriating that real scientists will dismiss soemthing so important just on the fact that its linked with ancient teachings of Qi energy, an open mind learns more and prospers more than a closed one,

its right to judge and question things, but its unfair to judge and make your mind up on something, before you give it half a chance.


peace

 

Yes, Chi, I believe in gravity, magnetism, and the rest you listed. They are observable, measurable, and have been proven to exist. You concept of "opposing energies" is incorrect. They are NOT measurable and have never been proven to exist - other than in the minds of the believers.

Such "energies" don't even have a valid reason for existing. They are figments of imagination and were dreamed up by ancient people who needed a way to explain things in a fashion that they thought they could understand. Those concepts were instituted at the same time and by many of the same people that came up with things like fortune-telling, Tarot cards, black cats, Friday the 13th and various gods that controlled the weather and affected human affairs. They knew less about science than the average 10-year old does today.

But back to your experiments. I'm not an unreasonable person at all and I will accept and believe the results of your tests if you do them in a scientific manner.

Do you know how to set up experiments that include carefully monitored controls as well as the test subjects? Do you understand the importance of statistical results? In other words, for something like testing the claims of the effects on growing plants you would need to do something like this. Not just a single plant or two but a few dozen with your "energy" applied and another few dozen without it. All the plants have to be in the same room so that they share all the same environmental conditions. They have to be watered equally - in carefully measured amounts - and all be in the same soil that was well mixed beforehand and with no additional nutrients added to any of them. They must all receive equal amounts of sunlight and measurements would have to be taken and recorded several times a day to insure that was so.

I've no idea what experiment(s) you plan on doing but they would all have to follow the same type of strict protocols as I just outlined. It's far from easy and requires a lot of time. And that's why I have no interest in doing so myself. It's not just a simple matter of throwing something together and looking at it every few days.

Do you fully understand what I'm saying?

 

im not going to lie to anybody here, no i dont really know that much about conducting scientific experimentations, but i was hoping you guys on here could give me a hand with that, when my devices are complete, coudbuster and HHG unit, then i will tell you guys its all ready and you can help me record my data in the proper manner, i would grately appreciate if people could help me with this.


and about you saying this is just something that ancient people needed to believe in to explain things, nah i dont agree with this atall, ancient people were more intune with the natural way, they could feel the energy more, and could i ask you one thing please? can you prove to me this energy dosent exist? just like you would prove there is no lock ness monster in scotland, by scanning the lake with sonar and proving it dosent liek they did awhile ago. hey so what do you think of all of the cloudbuster scientific data and weather graphs, how can you explain rain comming over an african desert 3 days after the cloudbuster was installed, when it hasnt rained in that particular desert for 30 years previously, with drought?



peace

 

Id be glad to volunteer to help you with that. Just tel l me when you're ready and we'll have a go at it.

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and about you saying this is just something that ancient people needed to believe in to explain things, nah i dont agree with this atall, ancient people were more intune with the natural way, they could feel the energy more, and could i ask you one thing please? can you prove to me this energy dosent exist? just like you would prove there is no lock ness monster in scotland, by scanning the lake with sonar and proving it dosent liek they did awhile ago. hey so what do you think of all of the cloudbuster scientific data and weather graphs, how can you explain rain comming over an african desert 3 days after the cloudbuster was installed, when it hasnt rained in that particular desert for 30 years previously, with drought?



peace[/QUOTE]

Good grief, Chi, I was giving you more credit than that! I thought surely you knew that no one can disprove a negative. For example, can YOU prove there's no human base on the far side of the moon? Of course you can't!!

The same goes for Nessie. The Loch is BIG and you can't scan all of it it once. So it would be easy to say that it slipped around you.

Honest question for you: considering that the ancient people weren't dumb, they just didn't have all the knowledge that's been gained since then, how can you possibly think they knew more about anything at that time? That just makes NO sense at all.

 

it would make sense if you changed your mind state for a second, think about it, an energy form that comes from nature, can be harnest by nature is actually nature, tech blocks Qi and interfiers with its flow, imagine a world and homes and cities without tech, the energy can be felt more, you dont need any tech to harness Qi so we try to analise it with all this tech and ofcourse it dosent work, but if you examine it yourself through taiji you dont need to see anything , just feel it, if you did internal martial arts for along time you would understand, its not that martial artists are stupid, its just they are more open to this type of thing, and actually experience it first hand within there own bodies, do you remember before people believed in gravity, what would a person who believed in gravity seem like to everyone else who didnt believe in it, and talking of gravity, could you prove that it is actually the thing that science claims it to be, how can you prove to me that gravity is a push and not a pull or vise versa, and yes i can tell you if there are moon bases, its called action if you go tot he moon (wich humans can do) then go there and see if its true, just like with this im taking action to prove or dissprove it, but yes even if i find no actual evidence onr ecord of orgone i will still believe it exists purely because of my own experiences with Qigong taiji and bagua,


and much thanks for helping me out with this light, dont take any of my debating to heart, im really gratefull that you will help me,


thanks peace.

 

Believe as you will.

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These are also the same people that thought the sun revolved around the Earth, that drilled holes in people's skulls to let out the evil spirits, offered animal (and human( sacrifices to appease their gods, thought that everything was made of fire, wind, water, and/or earth, etc. Yes, they really knew a lot, didn't they? And I don't have to imagine a world and homes and cities without tech, all I need to do is read a few of the thousand history books to see what it was like. When the weather was bad people starved to death. They also died from the smallest injuries that we wouldn't even wink at today. Same with minor illnesses. The average lifespan was about 22 years (or less). Yes, they had it all figured out and life was much better, wasn't it?

No problem at all, Chi, I'm very glad to help you because you're a fellow human being and you want to learn. Those are both things I have a high regard for.

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Ancient mystics had to endure incredible things, and were expected to make the incredible happen in many cases. I would happily sign up to be a mystic any day. You are given free license to pursue the attachment to the Earth you and your people have. The only laws you have to work with are those passed along from earlier generations, subject to your interpretation. While we all know a willingness to believe has been exploited to no end and that it will continue to be, it is reasonable to think that a mystic might have a broader idea of natural *order* than, say, some person having specialized in rocket science might today, and that they might pick up on a collective and ancestral knowledge, especially considering that many practiced meditation and the consumption of hallucinogens, poisons, and all sorts of brews.

That knowledge may have contained superstitions, or observable phenomena that validated real-world events, and served to inspire a social interest in an outlined destiny. That social interest would contribute directly to the realization of the idea in some form, after some time, and perhaps because the populace also ate ergot-infested crops, and took hallucinogens, and was built upon mythological explanations, they see their magic validated.

Moreso in those times, with a less-distracted sense of smell, one could easily smell ozone in the air, predicting rain. Imagine the multitude of other impressions one gets simply from smelling something. Ideas... not facts, not pre-established statements, but abstract, pure conceptualization.

I know not only my sense of smell would be much better if I didn't get distracted by the television, computers, books, traffic, society, clothes, food... etc! that has come about. Same goes for other, non-visual senses. Even sight, though! It's hard for me to look long distances unless they are lined with white paint and a dotted yellow line, because I am used to seeing things right in front of me, or at most 20'ish ft.

The transition from physics to emotion/perception is not fully understood, unless I have missed something. The results can be seen, but how consistent are they? Between two people? Between two sexes, races, species? Is that transition even physical? Why does the brain give so many ideas about something undefined, only to have all that operation stop as soon as someone defines an object?

One of the most primordial concepts we can lay claim to is diaticism, dualism, or as I like to put it, the numbers one and two. I'm guessing that has something to do with our bilatteral symmetry, and the fact that we experience night and day. Up and down. Absence/Presence. 0/1. Good/bad. Life/Death. Yin/Yang. Male/Female. Yes and no.
Anyway, I think that contributes to the tendency to see things in terms of two, and to see them in terms of working against/alongside each other. For most humans, there are two options, and taking one of those present you with another set. Sure there may be infinite options, but you have a decision to take one, or not.
So for humans, and our goals, it boils down to taking action or not. I'm not terribly scientific and terrified at math, though I respect heartily the power of each, (to those who think that invalidates everything I'm saying, I'm sorry, but there is more to life than measurements, as much as that might hurt to read) but I feel it is safe to say energy is a potential for a process. Humans can utilize energy in deciding to believe and act upon, or to ignore and forget something.

Is it so unreasonable to think that there is a healthy human element to an undetermined quantum state of potential collapsing into a certain state? Everything leading up to an event must be in precise order for that event to occur as planned or predicted. In a car crash, what occurs isn't just car A and car B travelling torwards each other up to a collision. It involves millions of details that our scientific instruments simply cannot measure all at once, let alone predict. Yeah, we know it will be a crash if they continue on course, but what factors influencing the drivers, or surrounding traffic contributed?

Maybe one of the drivers (or both) were drunk. Maybe one person dropped a cigarette and freaked out, and the other simply swerved to avoid another wreck. Maybe a mechanic somewhere forgot to tighten a bolt. These factors contribute directly, and through enough empirical investigation, they can be gleaned from the ensuing wreckage.

However, there are things that *seem* to contribute to an event without direct involvement. Perhaps a driver behind the entire thing has a random thought that he would see a crash today and that is the moment the partition is placed and the kitten gets gassed (Schroedinger's Cat). Due to the indirect nature of these events, they go largely unnoticed, or are pushed off as coincidence, in place of true sychronicity.

For those that study this, the idea that the brain is a receptor of quantum information, and that we have a role in that quantum state as observers, serves as a possible explanation. So we assist in defining that role (including everything we have been taught about reality) and actively create the reality we all see. I am rusty and would rather someone with a more current knowledge pick up on some of these details... heh. Holograms, man!!

Perhaps science only seems true because it has enough believers that material results have manifested.

I haven't tried explaning it in these terms for awhile, and haven't been back to these forums since fall of 2001, so I'm sorry if some of my post looks like a bad book report... seriously the most erudite trolls live here...

 

could people actually take the time to read this information please,

thankyou it would be most appreciated if people actually gave this a chance im not trying to preach some kind of scam like religion i gain nothing from teaching people of the way, i just do it because i actually care about nature and everything in this universe, including humans wich are part of the natural order wich we are abusing, please i beg people read the articles give qi a chance and try to learn from the teachings.



http://www.wofs.com/fsw.php?load=arcview&article=242&c=feng_shui_uk




http://www.matzkefamily.net/doug/papers/tucson2b.html



http://www.miqel.com/adepti/study-subjective-crystal-energy.html



http://www.meaningoflife.i12.com/qi.htm


peace

 

Actually the experiments on the plants were highly controlled. I know all about the scientific method, independant and dependant variables and things of that nature. This thread should be purely scientific. Ofcourse, with my limited resources, I'm unable to get a highly controlled environment, or study the molecular structure of something, or a 1000 test subjects, so we should propose amateur experiments that high school kids can do that should give us basic accuracy.

Through observation I've found that Qi or Orgone some how travels through electromagnetic waves. For instance, if you place an orgone generator under an antenna you get different results then placing it in other places. It's some how deeply connected waves, but I'm not entirely sure how. Also, if water is placed under it, it tastes more bitter, and energizes you more. Also, the room with the orgone generator should be hotter than other rooms.

I suspect that Qi is very connected to the observer. In Indian Scriptures it says that prana and consciousness are like twins, and when one changes the other does also.

I have some ideas, we should be able to through the scientific method test the effects of ORACs, Orgone generators, etc...on:
- Magnetism: Test the effects on a magnetic field (using iron fillings)
- Food: Test how long it takes before food start to spoil (or mold)
- Plants: Test the effects of plant growth in a dark room.
- Air: Test the effects of Orgone on air pollution.
- Etc...

Once we get a factual basis for Qi existing, we can find out exactly how Qi works, and what it really is, and we should be able to find the best device, and how to heal things very quickly or even instantaneously.

I think we need more experiment ideas, so I ask everyone, especially the skeptics to propose experiments to conduct that would conclusively verify the existence of Orgone energy.

 

Vitalone i just have to get 5 double terminate quarts crystals, then my HHG will be up and running its hard to get the right crystals, can you use anything else other thn those exact type crystals?, i will conduct and record any experiments including the ones you listed,


im glad that someone is as enthusiastic about this as i am, i will be glad to help you in any way just ask and ile try my best to help your studies, or if you need any advise of Qigong/taiji/shaolin/bagua etc.


peace

 

EmptyForceOfChi, you don't want to dump orgone and chi in the laps of scientists, especially "skeptics". If there is any advantage to a "skeptical" attitude, I don't think much of it. I've had too much experience with them and read too much of their work. A lot of them abandon all of their alleged scientific principles to attack any notion that they don't favor. Their junk science that they come up with to "debunk" an idea is often worse than the alleged junk science that they are debunking. When they do this it makes them pretty useless for anything. Don't waste your energy trying to convince people who willfully refuse to be convinced.