Paranormal feelings

Discussion in 'UFOs, Ghosts and Monsters' started by wegs, Apr 6, 2020.

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  1. (Q)

    (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    http://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2017/love-actually-science-behind-lust-attraction-companionship/
    https://www.scientificamerican.com/...mean-different-things-in-different-languages/
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4987042/
    https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/st...-find-a-few-surprises-in-their-study-of-love/
     
    (Q), Apr 11, 2020
    #61

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  3. wegs

    wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Of course. ^^

    I don’t think anyone would dispute there are specific variables we can look at, when it comes to feelings and the origins of love. But, love is something that each of us might define differently, how to “test” why someone falls in love easier than someone else? How to measure why someone may see love as selfless and unconditional, while others see it as an extreme form of adoration for another.

    I like that article, though.

    As always, another thread derailed lol MR’s post about consciousness is likely the culprit.
     
    wegs, Apr 11, 2020
    #62

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  5. Seattle

    Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    It's interesting that we all know love exists and we could design a test to show where love does and doesn't exit.

    That doesn't seem to be the case for ghosts. It doesn't seem to be the case for anything where there is a real question as to whether it exists or not.
     
    Seattle, Apr 11, 2020
    #63

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  7. wegs

    wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Love only exists because we say it does. Same for ghostly activity, I guess.

    We have an idea of what love is, based on experiences and observing others. But, it still only “exists” because we believe it does. So, if someone claims to have seen a ghost - we could interrogate him/her by examining all possibilities that would rule out paranormal activity, but that’s really it. The claimant might still come away believing he/she had a ghostly encounter.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2020
    wegs, Apr 11, 2020
    #64
  8. Seattle

    Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    You could design a test for love and either confirm or not, love. Not so with ghosts. A baby feels love. It's not because a baby "believes" in love.

    Sure, if someone thinks they saw a ghost or God or an alien from space, if they want to believe it's real, they will. That has no bearing on whether it is real or not.
     
    Seattle, Apr 11, 2020
    #65
  9. wegs

    wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Real, as in materially present?
     
    wegs, Apr 11, 2020
    #66
  10. Seattle

    Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    It depends on how you define "materially present".When you have feelings that make you laugh are those materially present?

    At one level, sure, they are chemical responses in your brain. When someone "seeings" a ghost their "feelings" are real, they are just inaccurate.

    You could define love and then construct a test that would confirm love. You could define ghosts (as long as it's falsifiable) and confirm ghosts if they actually existed. So far, no dice.
     
    Seattle, Apr 11, 2020
    #67
  11. wegs

    wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Thus, the premise of the thread (and thread title)

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    Paranormal “feelings”
     
    wegs, Apr 12, 2020
    #68
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  12. Seattle

    Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    Feelings, nothing more than feelings,
    Trying to forget my feelings of love.
    Tears drops rolling down on my face,
    Trying to forget my feelings of love.
     
    Seattle, Apr 12, 2020
    #69
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  13. Michael 345

    Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Hence they don't exist

    Exist - to be real, not just a product (thought/feeling) within the mind

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    Michael 345, Apr 12, 2020
    #70
  14. Michael 345

    Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Count me out of the all thanks

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    Michael 345, Apr 12, 2020
    #71
  15. wegs

    wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Like how you feel you’re always right? All in your mind?

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    wegs, Apr 12, 2020
    #72
  16. Michael 345

    Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Exactly

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    Michael 345, Apr 12, 2020
    #73
  17. Seattle

    Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    Could you maybe quote a little more for context? I'm guessing you take things literally if you are objected to "all" regardless of the context.
     
    Seattle, Apr 12, 2020
    #74
  18. Michael 345

    Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Context
    In another forum I noted it is frequent some treat concepts as being real

    Hope that helps

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    Michael 345, Apr 12, 2020
    #75
  19. wegs

    wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Experiences are real. If I feel love for another person, or even my cat...it's quite real. I feel kind of sad for those who believe that the feelings they share with others, and their emotional state is not real. Sounds a bit illogical to me.
     
    wegs, Apr 12, 2020
    #76
  20. Michael 345

    Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Question - You feel love for your cat - another feels hate - do these REAL feelings cancel each other out like matter and anti matter?

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    Michael 345, Apr 12, 2020
    #77
  21. Seattle

    Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    Most people don't argue against love do they? Love is real. Ghosts are not.

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    A baby feels love for its mother. It's not a belief. It's real. If someone is afraid of ghosts, that's real (fear). The ghost is not.

    Guys have all learned not to tell an upset girlfriend that "you shouldn't be upset". They are upset even if your actions weren't intentionally done to upset them.

    Are we really arguing that ghosts are real because someone believes in ghosts?

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    Last edited: Apr 12, 2020
    Seattle, Apr 12, 2020
    #78
  22. wegs

    wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Haha ^^ No.

    I suppose when starting this thread, my intent was to have a discussion around if ghosts could be real or if every claim is based on feelings, with no valid proof? (always and absolutely)
     
    wegs, Apr 12, 2020
    #79
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  23. James R

    James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Ghosts could be real, I suppose. The problem is that there's just no good evidence that they are real.

    If ghosts were real, don't you think that we'd have collected a fairly solid body of evidence for their existence by now? Bear in mind that self-declared "paranormal investigators" have supposedly been trying to collect reliable evidence of ghosts for decades at least, probably centuries. Yet there is no scientific consensus that ghosts exist. It's not a Grand Scientific Conspiracy; it's just science doing what science does: looking at the data and reaching tentative conclusions as to the best explanation(s).

    What we do know for sure is that people often misinterpret unusual experiences that they have, especially when they are scared and/or primed to interpret the experience in a particular (false) way. People can tend to jump to conclusions without examining evidence objectively. We see that all the time on this forum from believers in all kinds of paranormal stuff.

    You mention feelings. We aren't always aware of the sources of our feelings. We can sometimes misinterpret feelings as having external causes, when the real causes are internal.

    You also mention claims. Lots of people have made lots of claims about ghosts. The "ghost studies" field has a long and ignominious history of deliberate fakery and lies, to the extent that it's hard to be taken seriously if you claim to have seen a ghost. Apart from that, there are a lot of "solved" ghost cases that have turned out not to be ghosts after all, even when the witnesses involved have been honest and have had good intentions. Also, a lot of the "best" evidence for ghosts is hopelessly ambiguous. A fuzzy thing in a photograph might be a ghost, but then again it might be due to a camera defect, or a reflected light from some mundane object, or whatever. It's not always possible to tell. In such cases, all that can be said is that the evidence does not convincingly show a ghost.

    You also need to apply some common sense when confronted by extraordinary claims. If ghosts are a real thing, then what else does that imply about everything else we thought we knew up to the point where we decided ghosts are real? Are the ghosts compatible with everything else we know about our world? If not, we either need to revise some core ideas, or else use what we already know to invent a workable "theory of ghosts".

    The last thing to say is that if we ever get to the point where there's actually good evidence for the existence of ghosts, that in itself might not bring us any closer to understanding what ghosts are at a fundamental level. Showing that there are ghosts would not be the end of a research programme, but the start of one. We're not even at square one, so far.
     
    James R, Apr 13, 2020
    #80
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