Parapsychology is incompatible with physics

Discussion in 'Parapsychology' started by mikemikev, Jan 9, 2015.

  1. Seattle Valued Senior Member

    This suggests errors with the testing methodology.
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  3. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

    Not when the results show PK effects to be real.
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  5. Seattle Valued Senior Member

    It's just a result of misinterpreting what random would be and what large numbers would have to be employed for the expected randomness to occur.
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  7. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

    No it isn't. As the paper said, PK has been shown to exist in numerous experiments. You can start reading about these studies here under "Mind matter interactions":
  8. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    electro-magnetic forces are currently viewed as forces external to matter.. PK forces may very well be forces internal to matter so can not be measured externally
  9. Seattle Valued Senior Member

    QQ, what are the experiences that you have had with psi? It can't be rolls a ping-pong ball telepathically so what is it really?
  10. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    I have no psi experience that you would deem credible.

    When you are able to accept the fundamental logic of:
    If t= delta 0 then distance = 0 that proves the universe exists as a temporal phenomena only, I might touch upon my personal experience.
    If you can prove your comprehension and understanding that the distance between any two points any where in this universe is actually zero and expand to 4 dimensions if energy (time) is applied I might consider that I am discussing with someone who is actually interested in my response.

    The only reason I am responding to this thread was and is because my writings may afford some readers who are in serious difficulty find some sort of understanding that may help them manage their fears in more productive ways.
    Otherwise there is no point.
    However I will tease you with this question:
    Have you ever considered that the unconsciousness (null state) that you experience every time you have a dreamless sleep could be the same unconsciousness that everyone else experiences?"
    or that there is only one zero or null state universally...

    and maybe provide ideas how science could possible test such a notion...

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  11. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

    Good Link.
    Physics also breaks the laws of Physics, when it suits it to do so.
    A bigger problem is the lack of any valid evidence that ESP etc are real.
    Methanol does occur in space, even though nature has to cheat to produce it.
    It can be detected and measured.
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2015
  12. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

    Here's 24 studies with valid evidence of ESP/telepathy:

    Telepathy & ESP
    Targ & Puthoff (1974). Information transmission under conditions of sensory shielding.

    Puthoff & Targ (1976). A perceptual channel for information transfer over kilometer distance: Historical perspective and recent research

    Eisenberg & Donderi (1979). Telepathic transfer of emotional information in humans.

    Bem & Honorton (1994). Does psi exist?

    Hyman (1994). Anomaly or artifact? Comments on Bem and Honorton

    Bem (1994). Response to Hyman

    Milton & Wiseman (1999). Does Psi Exist? Lack of Replication of an Anomalous Process of Information Transfer

    Sheldrake & Smart (2000). Testing a return-anticipating dog, Kane.

    Sheldrake & Smart (2000). A dog that seems to know when his owner to coming home: Videotaped experiments and observations.

    Storm & Ertel (2001). Does Psi Exist? Comments on Milton and Wiseman's (1999) Meta-Analysis of Ganzfeld Research

    Milton & Wiseman (2001). Does Psi Exist? Reply to Storm and Ertel (2001)

    Sheldrake & Morgana (2003). Testing a language-using parrot for telepathy.

    Sheldrake & Smart (2003). Videotaped experiments on telephone telepathy.

    Sherwood & Roe (2003). A Review of Dream ESP Studies Conducted Since the Maimonides Dream ESP Programme

    Delgado-Romero & Howard (2005). Finding and Correcting Flawed Research Literatures

    Hastings (2007). Comment on Delgado-Romero and Howard

    Radin (2007). Finding Or Imagining Flawed Research?

    Storm et al (2010). Meta-Analysis of Free-Response Studies, 1992–2008: Assessing the Noise Reduction Model in Parapsychology

    Storm et al (2010). A Meta-Analysis With Nothing to Hide: Reply to Hyman (2010)

    Tressoldi (2011). Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence: the case of non-local perception, a classical and Bayesian review of evidences

    Tressoldi et al (2011). Mental Connection at Distance: Useful for Solving Difficult Tasks?

    Williams (2011). Revisiting the Ganzfeld ESP Debate: A Basic Review and Assessment

    Rouder et al (2013). A Bayes Factor Meta-Analysis of Recent Extrasensory Perception Experiments: Comment on Storm, Tressoldi, and Di Risio (2010)

    Storm et al (2013). Testing the Storm et al. (2010) Meta-Analysis Using Bayesian and Frequentist Approaches: Reply to Rouder et al. (2013)

    Here's some experiments confirming telepathy between twins:

    "Pamela Prindle Fierro, the Guide to Twins & Multiples, relates an incident told to her by a friend who has an identical twin. While chatting online one day, the sisters discovered that "they had purchased the exact same pair of pants, in the same color, from the same store, on the same day. Her sister lives in Belgium, while she lives in the United States."

    Is this a case of two people who share very similar genetics simply making similar choices? Or is there truly a psychic connection that transcends distance?

    Most scientists are naturally skeptical of such anecdotes as evidence of telepathic communication. "We do hear of things like this happening between identical twins more often than fraternal, but it isn't telepathy," says Dr. Nancy Segal, professor of psychology and director of the Twin Studies Center at California State University in an article for Lawrence Journal-World. "They're merely coincidences that occur when two people are so much alike in the first place. It's nature and nurture - same heredity, same environment. [Identical twins] come from the same egg, and they tend to have the same general thought patterns, intelligence levels, likes and dislikes."

    Coincidence doesn't explain the effects documented in several interesting experiments, however.


    Guy Lyon Playfair, in addition to his book research, has conducted informal experiments of his own to test the psychic connection between twins. These are some of the results:

    For a television show in 2003, Playfair set up a test for twins Richard and Damien Powles. Richard was placed in a sound-proof booth with a bucket of ice water while Damien was some distance away in another studio hooked up to a polygraph machine (a "lie detector" machine that measures respiration, muscle and skin response. When Richard plunged his hand into the ice water and let out a gasp, there was an obvious blip on Damien's polygraph that measured his respiration, as if he too had let out a gasp.

    During the same experiment, Richard was instructed to open a cardboard box, from which he expected a nice surprise. Instead, a rubber snake popped out, startling him. At that exact moment, the polygraph recorded a jump in Damien's pulse rate, as if he was having the same experience.

    In a similar experiment before a live TV audience in 1997, twin teenagers Elaine and Evelyn Dove were likewise separated. Elaine was in the sound-proof booth with a pyramid-shaped box while Evelyn was sequestered in another room with the polygraph. When Elaine was sitting relaxed, suddenly the box exploded in a harmless but shocking pop of sparks, flashes and colored smoke. Evelyn's polygraph recorded her psychic reaction at the same moment, with one of the needles running right off the edge of the paper.
    Playfair is quick to admit that these were not experiments conducted with the strictest scientific protocols, yet it is difficult to explain their outcomes.

    And there was a reason that Playfair used cold water and the element of surprise in his experiments rather than having the twins try to communicate the number and suit of a specific playing card or other such thing. The physical and emotional response could be the key to making it work. "Telepathy tends to work best when it is needed," he says, "and when sender and receiver are strongly bonded, as with mothers and babies, dogs and their owners, and those with the strongest bond of all - twins."====

    Here's an overview of two decades of psychic research conducted by the Stanford Research Group in conjunction with the CIA and the Pentagon:

    If that isn't enough, here are hundreds of published articles from the Journal of Scientific Exploration regarding PSI, UFOs, and other various anomalous phenomena:
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2015
  13. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

    I liked this link, about a telepathic parrot.

    Can anyone suggest any problems with the set up. any reasons why the results might not be considered valid?

    With regard to the Methanol in space link.
    Once the methanol has been formed, is there more potential energy in the molecule than there was previously?
    Say you collected it and brought it up to room temperature.
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2015
  14. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

    The Parrot experiment would have been a good one for peer review.
    They would have to use the same parrot, and one independent person would have to record the projections and another the results.

    If this experiment was repeatable under laboratory conditions, and the results not subject to interpretation by interested parties, then I would accept the results as scientific.

    I suspect that the peer review would not succeed, but I would be quite happy for it to do so.
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2015
  15. Seattle Valued Senior Member

    Why not just post whatever psi experience you deem to be credible since you are the one who holds the belief?

    The universe is temporal. What else would it be...spiritual?

    "If I can prove your comprehension and understanding"? Do you mean "improve"? Of course I'm not going to accept this notion that you've come up with. I shouldn't need to agree with your notion for you to have evidence of it.

    Regarding unconsciousness being the same for everyone. Maybe "empty" is the same for everyone? Who cares? There is no reason to believe there is any connection between everyone. This is just a notion that you have.

    Why are you interested in proving something that has no evidence for it in the first place?

    I think that all wooden boxes turn to marble when there is no one and no other thing in the room. If only a test could be designed to prove me right...

    By the way, the only reason that I'm here is to help those with a fear of psi and other spooky notions. If they have such notions they need have no fear and if they continue to experience these things they should seek medical attention from actual medical doctors. Fear need not be involved however.
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2015
  16. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    What you fail to understand is that your state of mental/emotional and physical health is the evidence of the functional psi (entanglement) refer to.
    ...and that dysfunctional psi is evident in abundance.
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2015
  17. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member


    remember the fact:
    at t=delta 0 distance also = 0
    work it out for yourself....

    so why do you fear the reality of Quantum Entanglement so much?
    Is it because you have to accept that you are entangled with everything else? (including me... hee hee... now that is scarey yes?

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    Last edited: Feb 3, 2015
  18. Seattle Valued Senior Member

    I don't drink coffee.

    Just accept it, people who hear voices in their heads aren't hearing them because t delta 0 = 0

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    I don't think you understand quantum entanglement either

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    I'm a tea drinker (green nothing added).
  19. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    I guess the notion and obvious ramifications of "spooky action at a distance " are just too scarey.
  20. Seattle Valued Senior Member

    Again, what exactly is it that you personally believe in along these lines. Are you good at predicting the future or reading someone's mind?
  21. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Explain the relevance of your request, please?
    ...and do you believe you are writing a response or know that you are writing a response?
  22. Seattle Valued Senior Member

    Just trying to figure out the relevance of your posts here. When someone posts regarding something not generally considered to exist they usually have a non-theoretical reason. Something more than "at t=delta 0 distance also = 0" or some pseudo QM mumbo jumbo.
  23. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    I beg to differ. Your comment about "not generally considered to exist" is absurd.

    just one example:

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    a significant percentage of the worlds population does indeed consider paranormal activity to be real and tangible.

    If you have a complaint about that then take it up with about 90% of the worlds population and not me.

    Why do you believe it doesn't exist?
    When it is obvious that science is unable to determine either yay or nay.
    I mentioned :

    if t=delta 0 then distance = 0 because there was a claim that no mechanism is known for psi communication as is also the case with quantum entanglement.
    I proposed that both share the same mechanism and that is described by the
    If t=delta 0 then d=0
    [distance is non-existent for entangled objects]
    and even posted a series of images to support understanding of my point.
    Do you want me to post those images again?

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    Last edited: Feb 4, 2015
    rakovsky likes this.

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