Peace in Korea

Discussion in 'World Events' started by Bowser, Mar 9, 2018.

  1. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    27,564
    Kim has made no commitments, except to repatriate the remains of US soldiers killed during the hot phase of the Korean War.
    He has gained major concessions, including a justification for China to lift its sanctions.
    And he got the President of the United States to fly to Singapore and take his lumps on the world stage, while praising Kim and elevating him to world stage status.

    His tactic worked. The chances of him giving it up are less than they were.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2018
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. CptBork Robbing the Shalebridge Cradle Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,785
    What I see at the moment is Kim Jong Un calling for a nuclear-free Korean peninsula and reaching out to the US for a deal. As long as the US isn't actually pulling troops out or handing over billions of dollars without suitable reciprocation, the progress thus far is overwhelmingly positive. The only realistic non-military alternative, as I have long advocated, is to sanction China itself and cut it off from all western markets and basically go back to the economic arrangement of the 1990's when we survived just fine without it, but I don't seem to find much enthusiasm for that suggestion whenever I bring it up.
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    27,564
    For China and NK, sure. For Japan and SK, not so much. For the US, best we can hope for is that it turns out to be not as bad as it looks so far.
    "Realistic"?
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. CptBork Robbing the Shalebridge Cradle Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,785
    It's doable, Trump's already started doing it anyway (to protect a small number of industrial friends), and it's cheaper than going to war with China.
     
  8. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    27,564
    If you are just talking about emptying the shelves of Walmarts in the US and bankrupting a bunch of US farmers, sure - but who else on the planet is going to sign on?
     
  9. CptBork Robbing the Shalebridge Cradle Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,785
    Anyone who wants to disarm North Korea's nukes (or stop it from acquiring more) without making any meaningful concessions, that's who. And since when did you start caring whether Walmart goes bankrupt? Once upon a time, Confederate slave owners went bankrupt too, that was a good thing.
     
  10. Hayden Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    110
    And the Nobel goes to the POTUS.
     
  11. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,687
    I tend to think that the only moment we can take re-unification seriously is when a post-unification exit strategy regarding Kim and family is publicly announced.
    There is no way South Korea will give up it's democracy for dictatorship and all players know this. There is also no way Kim will surrender control unless he had a secure and viable personal future.

    All this is pretty obvious so until there is that agreement of a post unification Kim strategy published the actual re-unification is magical thinking to say the least.
    (M)
     
  12. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    27,564
    I don't. Just riffing on the parameter "realistic".

    I doubt anyone cares enough about NK's nuke program to cut off ties with China. Besides, they need China cooperative, to keep a lid on it.
     
  13. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    27,564
    Pompeo's back from trying to salvage something - anything - from Trump's meeting with Nice Guy Kim.

    To quote a background anonymous government source, and paraphrase the verdict of all named and informed sources not politically committed, it went "as badly as it could have gone".

    So now we know what the deal was: What the lefties and "extremist progressive" folks said it was going to be. http://nymag.com/daily/intelligence...w-off-mike-pompeo-to-visit-a-potato-farm.html
     
  14. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,493
    We ain't Koreans!
    We need have no say in their future.
     
  15. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    27,564
    Of course. That's China's job. And Russia's.
    On the other hand: The future of the Republican Party, author of these public national humiliations and betrayals and endangerments on the world stage, is within our purview.
     
  16. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,493
  17. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    53,225
    What the fuck? They can nuke us, that's kind of a big deal.
     
  18. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,493
    Just because you see a sleeping dog, that doesn't mean you gotta poke it with a stick.
     
  19. gamelord Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    673
    The truth about living conditions in North Korea:

    1. "Back in 1994, a famine struck North Korea so bad that it lasted four years. Most of the crops were destroyed so people got desperate and turned to cannibalism. The death toll within those four years was 3.5 million people (that’s 10% of the country’s population).

    The little food the country had was confiscated by the military to feed the highest officials in the land."

    2. "This is pretty much common knowledge, but just to reiterate, if you are from North Korea, you won’t be leaving… ever.

    There are watchtowers and soldiers everywhere, and if you’re caught trying to escape, you’ll spend years in a concentration camp. If the Chinese catch you, one of two things will happen: if you are a man, you’ll be sent home, but if you are a woman, you’ll be sold."

    3. "If you’re ever granted the opportunity to visit North Korea, your visa will have to be approved by the Party and you’ll be asked to sign some forms promising you don’t have any suspicious technology with you."

    4. "Since 1957, there has been a three-caste system in North Korea, the “hostiles,” the “wavering,” and the “core,” all based on family history.

    The core consists of those most loyal to the government; the wavering class is the working class or “the neutral class” and the hostiles are those with a family history of rebellion. Rebellion is characterized by things like land ownership and converting to Christianity. The hostiles are denied education and are not allowed to live near Pyongyang, the capital city."

    5. "In North Korea, 24 million people are living below the poverty line." The population of the entire country is only 25 million though.

    6. "Even in the richest city of North Korea, Pyongyang, three million of the upper-class citizens aren’t given electricity, and those who are given it only have it for an hour a day.

    At night, North Korea looks as if it’s been wiped off the map. From the sky, it goes completely black.

    It’s common in the winter for electricity to be totally gone. This can be life-threatening since temperatures drop as low as -12 degrees Fahrenheit."

    7. "Though free trade is illegal in North Korea, a black market has emerged. “Grasshopper merchants”, who are predominately women, sell on dirt roads between the cities of Haeju and Sariwon, trading and profiting off of their goods.

    There are now 500 families working this market even though what they’re doing could land them in jail or worse. Their locations are secret, so it’s rare that they’re spotted by foreigners."

    8. Travel is not permitted without hard to obtain permits. If you’re of the “wavering” or “hostile” class, this is hard to obtain. Without the permit you are not allowed to drive a car.

    9. The most prohibited thing to photograph in North Korea is its poverty. North Korea wants to look like a strong, wealthy nation with happy citizens, so any images that speak to the depravity that exists within are likely to get you jailed if discovered. The second most forbidden thing to photograph is North Korean soldiers.

    10. There is one hotel that tourists are allowed to stay in while visiting North Korea. It’s called the Yanggakdo International Hotel and it exists in the capital city of Pyongyang.

    “It’s conveniently isolated on an island so you cannot leave and free roam the city. Tourists are placed in rooms facing the best parts of Pyongyang existing to the right of this frame,” wrote Eliott of Earth Nutshell.

    All of the rooms are rumored to be bugged.
     
  20. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    53,225
    Threatening to bite is not sleeping.
     
  21. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,493
    Ok so, You think that dog might bite--------------------and-------------this makes you want to antagonize that dog?

    Why?
     
  22. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    53,225
    I want to remove or minimize the threat, which it is regardless of our behavior.
     
  23. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,493
    Are you sure that you have good intent?
    Is dominating another people so important to you that you would assume responsibility for thousands/tens of thousands/hundreds of thousands/perhaps millions of deaths?
    Why is it that you think that you have the moral high ground?
    What is it that makes you think that you have the right to determine another peoples destiny?

    Why would you rather see a "threat" as a justification for violent action?
     

Share This Page