Pentagon admits that ghosts exist.

Discussion in 'General Science & Technology' started by Neurostudent, May 24, 2022.

  1. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    No, just an incomplete definition.

    She means "my subjective perception of reality".
     
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  3. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    quale
    PHILOSOPHY
    noun: qualia; plural noun: qualia
    1. a quality or property as perceived or experienced by a person.
      "in a different world, I could have the qualia of ‘red’ when looking at the sky (but would continue to label it as ‘blue’)"
    Really? The definition of qualia ((from just Google the word, denies its own existence

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  5. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    No, I meant that the existence of ghosts isn’t considered an objective reality but honor, love etc objectively exist, albeit we all may define each differently.
     
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  7. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    This ^
     
  8. C C Consular Corps - "the backbone of diplomacy" Valued Senior Member

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    Such exist as concepts slash principles expressed by language or whatever symbolic or abstract system. But how those general ideas are defined specifically, locally, in different disciplines, and personally can vary (subjectivity and relativism amidst that). Some terms like "love" can also refer to immediate feelings, but that's the problem of multiple meanings sharing the same word to represent them (or our not making the proper distinctions).
     
  9. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    But, there wouldn’t be a requirement of proof on your part, if someone tells you “I’m in love,” in the same way you’d require evidence for claims of paranormal activity. If someone claims to have seen a ghost, if you adamantly don’t believe in ghosts, no matter what “proof” is provided, you may dismiss it. But with love, you yourself may have experienced it or you have witnessed others who have, so you can identify with the feeling of love, although you may define it differently than someone else.

    Love exists in many forms, but we can at least collectively agree that it exists. (I don’t know if I like the term “exist” all of a sudden. lol) We know however, that there are many testimonies out there whereby people claim to have witnessed ghost activity, but can we collectively agree that ghosts exist? No. So, I see the two concepts differently.
     
  10. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    I do not see where it does this.
     
  11. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    quale
    PHILOSOPHY
    noun: qualia; plural noun: qualia

    a quality or property as perceived or experienced by a person.

    "in a different world, I could have the qualia of ‘red’ when looking at the sky (but would continue to label it as ‘blue’)"

    Really? The definition of qualia ((from just Google the word, denies its own existence

    "could" being the operative word "have the qualia of ‘red" BUT BUT BUT let's let's just ignore that and "continue to label it as ‘blue’

    What are the units of qualia? scale?

    Can you have ½ a qualia? As above would ½ a qualia equal pink? or in the other direction a dark red? WHAT is qualia actually measuring?

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  12. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Again, none of the things you posted denies the existence of qualia.
     
  13. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    I noticed you did not answer

    What are the units of qualia? scale?

    Can you have ½ a qualia?

    As above would ½ a qualia equal pink?

    or in the other direction a dark red?

    WHAT is qualia actually measuring?

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  14. C C Consular Corps - "the backbone of diplomacy" Valued Senior Member

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    Qualia (historically called "secondary qualities" in the context below) are actually public or inter-subjective properties, in that the external world featured in human perception reliably exhibits them (green leaves, loud sounds, quality of skunk odor, etc). And those of us who have fully functioning senses usually have consensus (i.e., the sky is blue). Sans the colorblind, for instance, and people afflicted with other clinical conditions where they can have different character.

    Where they aren't properties of the "external world" is in the "invisible" scientific realism version introduced by earlier thinkers like Galileo and Locke. That abstract world becomes a metaphysical proposition at any point the conception departs from being a practical conception or useful model for just "getting things done": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primary–secondary_quality_distinction

    Where subjectivity or personal preferences enter the picture is with respect to how we like, dislike, or categorize _X_ color, flavor, skin sensation, sound, etc. Some men may hate the color pink, some people consider bagpipe music to be noise, the rest of the world may consider the flavor of American beer to be awful, and so-forth.

    Those are "local" cognitive understandings and interpretations applied to such specific manifested content, rather than inherent attributes of the experiences themselves. Subjective evaluations which indeed vary from person to person without clinical conditions being responsible.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2022
  15. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    What does any of this have to do with existence? Your "tests" are nonsense.

    What is rubber measuring? Can you have half rubber?

    What is swimming measuring? Can you have half swimming?

    Will you now assert that rubber and swimming do not exist?
     
  16. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    So qualia does not exist

    Thought so

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  17. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Rubber is a Physical Substance. It can be measured and quantified. You can have ½ the QUANTITY of rubber if you dispose of half of the amount you start with

    Swimming is an ACTIVITY. As such can be defined as "actions which propel (persons rich etc) through, normally liquid

    Noted still not answered my questions

    Pulling a George on me????

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  18. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    You make up these questions about "what it's measuring" and if you "can have half" of something, and then when I apply it to things that do exist, you change your tune.

    That's because the tests are not valid. You're making them up.

    So, by your logic, it does not exist. Your tests were "what does it measure" and "can you have half of it".

    Oh, so now you want more tests. So you're just going to add a new test every time I name another thing?


    This makes you sound foolish. No one has any obligation to answer nonsensical questions just because you made then up.

    Here's one for you:

    Please answer with a yes or no: have you stopped beating your wife yet?
     
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  19. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Noooo

    The question is WHAT IS QUALIA measuring

    IT - QUALIA ---- not it's

    No - qualifier - never started (that is good for all 3)

    You are correct in so much as there is not a limp of activity which can be plonked on a bench and dissected

    Certain activities have been labelled with specific names and known under those names. No activity has any physicality

    Best to call activities CONCEPTS. Do this, this and this you are doing (whatever CONCEPT) you have described

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  20. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Who says it's measuring anything ?


    I notice you dodged my question.
    You didn't answer because you know it's poorly formed and does not shed light on the topic. See how that works?

     
  21. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Nooooooo

    Lets try this way

    You claim QUALIA exist? Correct?

    If correct what does it (QUALIA) exist as?

    A measurement of a physical object? As a physical object?

    From Wikipedia I find this

    In philosophy of mind, qualia (/ˈkwɑːliə/ or /ˈkweɪliə/; singular form: quale) are defined as individual instances of subjective, conscious experience

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualia#:~:text=In philosophy of mind, qualia,instances of subjective, conscious experience.

    So Mr Wikipedia classifies qualia as defined as individual instances of subjective, conscious experience

    Do you know of any subjective, conscious experience(s) which exhibit any physicality or are detectable in any manner?

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    EDIT

    Is it not convention that person's claiming something exist need to show evidence of said something existing?

    Asking me to prove QUALIA does NOT exist is asking for a negative to be proven

    Not possible

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    Last edited: May 27, 2022
  22. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    One form of qualia is pain.

    The doctor asks me "On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the worst pain you can think of, how much does it hurt?"

    And I can say "A 5. More than a punch but less than the time I broke my femur."

    And the doctor can put that in my chart, and note that last time, it was a 3 and that my pain seems to be steadily getting worse instead of better."
     
  23. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    OK that is ONE SUBJECTIVE example

    How about a objective example of anything?

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