Pfizer halts Alzheimer's and Parkinson's research, uses Tax Scam money to buy back stock

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Kittamaru, Jan 28, 2018.

  1. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

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    Did I ask for a definition? Don't think so. Rather, I sought clarification regarding this alleged "jealousy"--specifically, jealous of what exactly?
     
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  3. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    25,852
    No question visible. I think you are confusing yourself with the term "zero-sum economy".
    None. Reread.
     
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  5. Vociferous Registered Senior Member

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    If envy of what another has keeps a person from appreciating what they have, that is jealousy.
    Wanting to take instead of allowing for charity (which by definition you cannot "force"), is jealousy.
    Good. No clarification, no need to reevaluate.
     
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  7. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    25,852
    Envy is not jealousy.
    Either would be irrelevant here.
    That's stupidly wrong.
    Denial. But you were apparently just trolling in the first place, so - - - -
    You still have your mental confusion about "zero sum economy" to deny.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
  8. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

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    2,333
    Did I miss something? Where has anyone even suggested that they do not appreciate what they have, or that they are "env(ious)" of what another has?

    You're gonna have to explain that one for me--sounds like gibberish.
     
  9. Vociferous Registered Senior Member

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    642
    You must be joking.

    jeal·ous
    feeling or showing envy of someone or their achievements and advantages.

    I don't get the joke.

    Says the human who just joked that two synonyms didn't mean the same thing.
    Use some emojis or something so we know when you're kidding.

    That one's at least funny.
    Whether a joke or one of those funny human ego displays.

    Is there no envy in comparing relative wealth and demanding redistribution?
    Maybe review the topic?
     
  10. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

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    2,333
    No--why would there be? I'm not "demanding" any of that wealth for myself.

    The only person making such an absurd claim here is you.
     
  11. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Since you just described how you think they are different - "If envy of what another has keeps a person from appreciating what they have, that is jealousy" - no, they are not the same. By your own words.
    Perhaps re-read your own post?
     
  12. Vociferous Registered Senior Member

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    642
    So no one here is talking about taxation in lieu of charity?
    Maybe not you, but I was sure that was the general gist.
    Oh, you think that was some sort of absolute definition? No, I just posted a definition above.
    So you really think that jealousy is only envy that impedes a person's appreciation?

    Isn't jealousy in pair-bonding increased appreciation? Isn't the jealous person envious of their partner's attentions?
     
  13. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    52,769
    I suppose you could always accuse critics of being self serving, but she raised millions for the church while depriving dying people of pain relief and making a fetish of suffering.
     
  14. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    25,852
    You're just ignorant, is all. No big deal. But you should learn to check these things, before dealing in insult. Take a moment: do you think that the Bible verse often translated as "I am a jealous God" could also be translated as "I am an envious God" - same same?

    layman's take, Wiki: "Jealousy often consists of one or more of emotions such as anger, resentment, inadequacy, helplessness or disgust. In its original meaning, jealousy is distinct from envy, though the two terms have popularly become synonymous in the English language, with jealousy now also taking on the definition originally used for envy alone. "
    (Note that jealousy becoming inclusive still would not create a synonym - envy is not inclusive.)

    What Wiki is referring to as "original meaning" is what people with a liberal arts education call "meaning".
    A decent dictionary - the American Heritage 3rd, the Oxford, something with usage information - will help.
    You have company in your confused usage, but this is a science forum - we are a bit more careful about faddish illiteracy, in principle, because it undermines careful discussion.
    Meanwhile:
    You have been repeating some kind of vague reference to a "zero sum economy", as if it had relevance. This relevance is not visible. There is no zero sum economy involved in US drug company predations or poor governance of the US economy. What do you think you are talking about, and what does it have to do with anything here?
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2018
  15. Vociferous Registered Senior Member

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    642
    So she didn't help anyone at all?
    So we don't speak the same language. I'm speaking common modern English, and you're speaking academic etymology?
    Your reference literally says "synonymous", right before you interject "still would not create a synonym".

    But if it helps you understand, please, replace all instances of "jealousy" with "envy".
    Not sure why the semantic argument is such a big deal. Seems like a bit of a self-gratifying straw man.
    Wait, I thought you already agreed, several times if I recall, that the economy was not a zero-sum game?
    But drug companies that sell in such a market are somehow immune? How's that?

    I'm all for a primate's right to make noise, so if vague pronouncements is all you want to make...Oo, oo, oo.
     
  16. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    25,852
    You're speaking illiterate English, which confuses your attempts at argument such as they are.
    That would highlight the error of your claims, of course. Helpful. But I don't need the help - you do.
    It says "popularly become synonymous", and it is wrong, as noted. Popularly misused, as many words are, would have been more accurate.
    That's why I corrected it, on obvious and explicit grounds, and referred you to decent dictionaries of common modern English.
    What are you talking about? Immune from what, say?
    Everything posted here assumes the US economy as is - not zero sum. The term is irrelevant. So when you use it, you are confused.
     
  17. Vociferous Registered Senior Member

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    Well, I am just a loud primate.
    Another funny ego display.
    So your own reference is wrong?
    Maybe. Just an ape after all.
     
  18. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    About that, sure. As noted three times now.

    So, about this zero-sum muddle - figured it out yet?
     
  19. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Not quite...
    try:
    "The husband was jealous of his wife's interest and envious of the men she was interested in."
    He was not envious of his wife. He was jealous of his wife.
    or
    "Scrooge was guarding his hoard of Gold jealously, whilst envying his neighbor for his smaller but brighter hoard of Gold."

    Jealousy is much about possession or ownership, where as envy is about something wanted to be owned or possessed but not yet achieved.

    As far as the threads topic is concerned.
    There was recent news of a breakthrough in early detection blood test ( some 20 years early) that may have potentially made Pfizer's Alzheimer's and Parkinson's research redundant. Alternatively they may be holding information about new medicines already developed back from the market to optimize the share market windfall when announced. The 300 research staff being no longer required.
    scenario:
    they buy back all the shares to optimize the windfall when they announce improved medications for Alzheimers etc.
    see: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-01/new-alzheimers-blood-test-qld/9380716
    If the new test is solidly proven and I guess it is very close to it, then the efforts of Pfizer would have to be reconfigured.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2018
  20. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    25,852
    Not really. If they used their tax break to maximize their profits from some new thing already developed, as well as cover the costs of firing a bunch of employees they were going to fire anyway, that doesn't make much difference to us.
     
  21. Vociferous Registered Senior Member

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    642
    Sure, if you select mismatched definitions. Where one definition is a synonym for envy, others are not.

    jeal·ous
    feeling or showing envy of someone or their achievements and advantages.
    "he grew jealous of her success"
    synonyms:envious, covetous, desirous;More
    resentful, grudging, begrudging, green (with envy)
    "he was jealous of his sister's popularity"
    antonyms

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    roud, admiring
    • feeling or showing suspicion of someone's unfaithfulness in a relationship.
      "a jealous boyfriend"
      synonyms:suspicious, distrustful, mistrustful, doubting, insecure, anxious;More
      possessive, overprotective
      "a jealous lover"
      antonyms:trusting
    • fiercely protective or vigilant of one's rights or possessions.

    Good points.
     
  22. Vociferous Registered Senior Member

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    642
    "cover the costs of firing a bunch of employees"?
    How is that a cost?
     
  23. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    17,949
    As per wikiionary:
    Some usage guides seek to distinguish "jealous" from “envious”, using jealous to mean “protective of one’s own position or possessions” – one “jealously guards what one has” – and envious to mean “desirous of others’ position or possessions” – one “envies what others have”. [1] This distinction is also maintained in the psychological and philosophical literature.[2][3] However, this distinction is not reflected in usage, as reflected in the quotations of famous authors (above) using the word jealous in the sense “envious (of the possessions of others)”.​

    There needs to be made a clear distinction between usage by popular literature/gossip etc and that which requires more refined definition.

    I might add it is incumbent upon the author to ensure his word are not subject to misinterpretation by his/her intended audience.

    nothing new in any of that eh?

    Let's take your example and compare :

    "he was jealous of his sister's popularity"
    with
    "he was envious of his sisters popularity"

    They have two very different meanings, to the reader who has a deeper interest in the human condition. (psychology)
    You will find that if you go into it deep enough you will find the distinction between jealousy and envy is more obvious than you currently realize and far from trivial.

    If I am not mistaken Shakespeare was a great one for demonstrating this distinction...in many of his works.

    I do apologize for my indulgence in this issue as it has been a difficult one to deal with in a literary sense.
     

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