Philosophy as a Problem

Heh. Looks more like you're the one doing it now. Sure. She's managed to turn things to herself in the past. And, this did start to turn towards her in this thread because of her exasperation with her own thoughts, but you're just going beyond beyond, guy.

Wasn't talking about her life.
Although it might well be.

Hmm.
Maybe your descent into futility?

"I wish with all my heart for you to live happily ever after, in your secluded little full stop fantasy World, but I doubt that you will."

Or would that be more like passive aggression? I doubt you wish any such thing. You might wish for her to live happily ever after, but not in her secluded little full stop fantasy world.
Methinks.


Edit:
Ah. The edit:

Maybe that explains your constant criticism then.
But, it's funny how you can spend so much time criticizing other when most of your life is spent on self-examination....

 

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No, I just saw an opportunity to quote a movie for a laugh (mostly for myself). I actually have no idea what has become of this thread or what you and others are talking about.

 

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There is a simple way to make oneself feel happy or unhappy, but it involves applying some ego:

If one wants to make oneself happy, the exercise is to finish this sentence with several examples:

I am glad that I am not ...


If one wants to make oneself unhappy, the exercise is to finish this sentence with several examples:

I wish I were ...



And actually, consistently putting this into practice -- doing things one is glad to have done them, and not doing things one would later regret -- does make one happy.
Westerners are experimentally catching up with Buddhists!

 

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This place is beyond the beyond, a make believe masquerade.

That would be the day.

In the time that I have known her I have not yet seen the slightest expression of a serious hope to end the seclusion. "Castles in the sky" is what she calls it.

Thought is critical. Everything you have just written is critical. Some people are better at it that others so then we hear a lot of sour grapes from the losers.

Too bad.

--- Ron.

 

You know what's your problem, Ron?

You are ashamed of the schadenfreude that you feel, the schadenfreude that feeds your enormous ego. And as you are ashamed of this schadenfreude, you prop up the Buddhist teachings so that it all looks quite nice at first glance, and well-meaning.

But in the end, you want us to be grateful for your projecting your problems on other people.
Heaven forbid the world should get healthy: You'd be lost, with nothing to feed on.

Your self-esteem is where it always has been: in the gutter.

Woah woah woah, All the world's a stage, woah woah woah were it not that you have bad dreams, woah woah woah and woah woah woah! You are so insecure! Perplexed! But you want opposition, all in good sport! Woah woah woah! Oh, your feelings are so hurt! Water is so bad! The slut! She called you an analytical bully! But it's all passing and changing, so everything is so much more peaceful. But it's not! You want proper jurisprudence! You want objectivity! Incontroversibly proved. And uh ah, you are so smart and most other people are soooo dumb, and losers! Loooooooooooohsarz. They don't like you because you speak your mind! Yes! This is why they don't like you.




If only you had the guts to feel some real aggression, some real schadenfreude, some real power that comes from within you.

Instead you are an old, worn out, sterile dilettante.

 

That is very telling, "I am glad that I am not..." rather than "I am glad that I am..."

Escapism is nothing new. The ignorance is bliss formula was long since tried and tested and yes, it does work wonders for wankers to whom nobody else is of any serious care or concern, the rest of us who then have to mop up the mess that the ignoramus prefers to neglect.

So much the better then when the ignorant of no worth to anybody else are doomed to live in seclusion anyway; the general damage is then at least reduced.

I prefer to stick with it, to suffer the occasional pain of rejection in exchange for the occasional joy of approval, the occasional joy of birth in exchange for the occasional grief of loss.

Love, they say, makes the World go round.

--- Ron.

 

That is a lot of very sour grapes isn't it?

A distinct change of tune from this not so long ago:

27/05/2006 23:40:20 RH: Tell them what a shit I am
27/05/2006 23:41:08 Nejka: I am not objective here.
27/05/2006 23:41:12 Nejka: Cannot be.
27/05/2006 23:42:08 Nejka: I am giddily infatuated with you, and frustrated, and biased.

You never could get past the envy, could you, with me here with a woman to kiss and you there with none but your pussy to stroke when you go to bed.

--- Ron.

 

And now Satyr leaves all you kiddies to enjoy your regularly scheduled Sciforum programming of “Emotional Availability” at 7:00 am followed by our entertainment segment of “Backroom PM Gossip” at 8:00 am then “The Internet Social Café” at 9:00 am, then with the documentary “The search for electronic long-distance Adolescent infatuations for Retarded Psychologies” at 12:am, proceeded by our spiritual program “Let’s hug a tree and save the World” at 01:00 pm and our soap opera “The Meek and the Ugly”.


Tomorrow be sure not to miss:


“On which side of the border is the Queen?” or “Did the stalker kill her yet?” : A who done it.

“Let’s be friends and Cry together – Making friends on-line” : The search for life rafts in a stormy mental sea.

“Web Love Letters – Getting laid on-line” : How to orgasm without ever touching another body.

“Philosophy for the Emotionally unstable” : Justifying irrationality.

“How to read Between the Text and pretend you have a Life” : The art of projection.

“Feeling yourself towards Truth – Tales of the Blind” : How thought has become a social pariah and how the mind battles to save itself from itself.

“Thinking is Evil” : Stupidity as a social phenomenon of control and contentment.

“Homosexual Holism” : Making your sphincter into a flotation device.

“The Maquise, the Wolf and the Vixen” : Stories from the crypt.

“How to prevent over-thinking yourself into Awareness” or “How stupidity became a virtue in a postmodern wasteland” : Enough said.

“Where are they Now?” : Lamenting the past when the present is so stale.

 

You aint seen nothing yet.

Guess who says "I used to be able to do it in my mind entirely using no hands, nothing"

Necessity, as they say, is the mother of invention.

Thanks for the contributions.

chuckle chuckle

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-- Ron.

 

Satyr: We are attracted to the powerful, to the indifferent, to the confident and courageous because it exemplifies the universal indifference we are bound to. It represents that which we want to be.

Meantime: But isn't it also true that you might be "attracted" to those qualities not because you lack them but because you already are them — in essence — but can not at this time manifest them: in other words, you are detecting a sort of kindred spirit and long to "get it on"?

Satyr: If you cannot "manifest" them then you lack them.

Well, so much for mitigation for your sense of impotency. But since you can not perceive the grade of my rationality, even here, perhaps your acumen is also clotted by your impotency. Or perhaps it is your prejudice and not your cool discrimination that is clotting the manifestation of your Will to Power? For, as we all know so well by now, you fuss ever so much over your theory of Power, and have amply demonstrated your need to evidence your Will.

Anyway, I, for the next four days, can not manifest a full regalia of my own acumen in response to your elegant post not because I am lacking in the needful qualities to do so but because I won't have the time! Yet, those very qualities that you abhor so much like strangers' germs in the market square are, nonetheless, alive and present. You should really look into traveling on Standby. So very efficient.

 

You wish.

I have been in complete shock ever since I found out you beat your wife.

An infatuation was the only thing to compensate for the shock, so as to remain in communication.
And you were good at tweaking the Buddhist teachings so as to make me feel guilty had I left.

I hadn't become aware of it all until other people wrote to me, expressing concern about how you treat me in the forums.
All you had working for you, was my Stockholm syndrome and my guilt.


You are yet another one in the series of people with whom I can be only if I grossly underestimate myself.

 

And don't forget to tell you told your wife to tell me you are in love with me ...

 

Do you actually believe this sort of shit when you write it?

How about I upload the entire record of messages and chat to a website for all to see the truth of it?

onedit:

I just checked the record. You found out when I wrote March 14th, a remarkably long time to be in complete shock.

Wow.

That's a good story. I'll go look it up.


........... can't find anything about telling to tell.

Where was that?


--- Ron.

 

It took me over a year to wake up to what was happening in the situation with Jenyar.
I am glad all this now is happening online, were it offline, I am not sure I'd be still alive.

I have been in abusive relationships before, but hadn't learned what was happening, so the same story repeated with different people, exacerbated each time.

I would be nice and feel guilty if I wouldn't be nice, and then one thing lead to another, all built on delusion, all fake. Granted, with occasional bouts of genuineness, but all in all, fake in inception. Ending up in what looked like good friendships or romance, while I was cringing inside at the thought of spending time with that person.

I am sorry others had to witness this. But then again -- I was witnessing their duplicity as well.



But -- things are finally changing. I've recently made a list of wrong and harmful ways to think, feel and act in relationships, based on my experience from several relationships. Keeping that in mind and avoiding these ways should keep me away from making the same old mistakes.



* * *

1. Thinking for others. (Goes so far as saying, "I spent the evening thinking this through for you.")
2. Not believing what people say, being skeptical per default.
3. Assuming to know what another lacks, and assuming to have it oneself.
4. Imputing evil motives.
5. Imputing a person's motive, based on observing their action.
6. Overpromising and underdelivering.
7. Hiding one's emotions.
8. Valuing content over feelings.
9. Holding everyone to one's standard of rationality.
10. Rationalizing.
11. Trying to gain / have the upper hand in the friendship.
12. Giving another the upper hand in a friendnship.
13. Taking the upper hand when the opportunity arises.
14. Intellectualizing.
15. Poor gifts -- it shows they have been put together in a hurry, or a "just something".
16. Accepting a grossly uneven exchange and think it alright.
17. Highly valuing one's "good" habits, and saying so.
18. Openly declaring one's spiritual and psychological qualities, publicly or in a confrontation.
19. Calling upon a behaviour as a habit, so as to justify it.
20. Prying into other people's spiritual matters.
21. Making another person's personal problems one's own. (E.g. "You are from a dysfunctional family and have personal problems due to that. You are my friend, so your problems are my problems.")
22. Taking up debate on anything the other person says.
23. Forgiving the other person for a wrongdoing, without first discussing the issue with them, and later on reporting that one has forgiven all wrongs the other person has done -- while the other person is oblivious to what the wrongs were.
24. Questioning other people's beliefs and morals once they state them.
25. Playing the role of victim x abuser x rescuer.
26. Misanswering questions -- usually by giving some general answer to a specific, personal question. (E.g. "Who lacked respect for whom?" -- "Disagreement is not a sign of disrespect.")
27. Calling upon "rationality" and "reasonability" at all times.
28. Seeking "objective proof", always.
29. Answering or responding positively to a person's negative questions or statements about themselves, in an attempt to disprove them and assure them otherwise. (E.g. "I'm ugly." -- "No, you're not." Possibly furthering this by discussing beauty and ugliness, e.g. "What is beautiful?", "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.")
30. Discussing mainly abstract matters, philosophy, religion, ...
31. If a person says "I am XY (a Christian, atheist, biologist, ...)", seeking to objectively prove this.
32. Doing background checks on people's declared churches, organisations, religions, parties, etc.
33. Having an answer to everything, or attempting to find it.
34. Seeking unilateral approval.
35. Setting up situations where no matter what the other person says or does, it is for their harm or disadvantage.
36. Doing as if one had no influence on the other person.
37. Saying one will "make" or "find" time for the other person.
38. Saying, "Friendship is a comitment I am willing to make, whether I know you or not."
39. Saying, "I cannot remember ever saying that and I have no record of it, you must have confused me with someone else."
40. Not distinguishing between identifying a mistake or a wrong, and blaming.
41. Doing as if one had only good influence over the other person.
42. Expecting to be given credit for the good influence over another person, but expecting the other person to notput the negative influence against one. -- "Good influence is done by me, but bad things are your own doing."
43. Believing one does only good, and could not possibly any harm -- since one doesn't believe in violence, agression. -- "I don't believe in violence and aggression, therefore, I do nothing violent and aggressive, therefore, I cannot possibly hurt anyone."
(Example of such conversation:
A: What you said hurt me. It was very aggressive.
B: I don't believe in aggressiveness.
A: I am hurt by what you did.
B: You are responsible for how you feel.)
44. Witholding personal information about everyday matters.
45. Overestimating one's importance to another. A gross disproportion between what A thinks of B and says so, and what B implies or states; e.g. A considers B a distant acquaintance, yet B makes wishes and promises disproportionate to that.
46. Being someone's self-appointed spiritual advisor.
47. Overestimating one's influence over another. ("I know you will be alone without me." "You won't forget me." "It will take you a lifetime to get over this grievance you have about me.")
48. Ridiculing another person's negativity towards oneself. (E.g. "You disgust me." -- "I am not disgusting you.")
49. Dismissing dismissal.
50. Saying, "I will not abandon you."
51. Saying, "Take it (this relationship) one day at a time."
52. Questioning whether another person's feelings are justified.
53. Wanting to understand everything, indiscriminately, and making an effort to do so, the onlylimitations being limited time and energy.
54. Perceiving a person think faulty, and attempting to fix their thinking.
55. Appointing oneself as a teacher.
56. Freely discussing one's beliefs with anyone who asks, or seems to ask.
57. Assuming oneself perfect and setting for oneself the standards of Jesus or Buddha.
58. Considering oneself qualified to give analyses and diagnoses, and doing so, unsolicited.
59. Insisting on helping someone. Insisting the other person should perceive one's actions as "help".
60. Approaching people with the attitude that they don't understand one, that they make little or no effort to understand one, that they are immune to one, that they are out to hurt one or oppose one, that they do not care for one.
61. Expounding on one's beliefs at great lenghts.
62. Using the arguments "All phenomena are inherently empty" and "Everyone is responsible for how they feel" or variations of them in a personal conflict or confrontation.
63. Thinking what is true for one is true for everyone else.
64. Thinking others should be like one, expecting so.
65. Using philosophical, religious or psychological arguments in a fierce personal conflict.
66. Telling somoene to calm down.
67. Stating you know why someone is doing something, and act in accord with your statement. Putting it against the other person if they disagree.
68. Putting it against others if they are not in accord with your idea of them. (E.g. Rejecting someone for what they actually are not, while claiming they are.)
69. Thinking one knows what is best for someone else.
70. Thinking and doing as if one had the power to determine how the other person will feel about one's actions, and expecting them to comply, criticizing them if they don't. (E.g. "I am doing this to please you. Why aren't you pleased?! You are so demanding and ungrateful. Be happy that I am still here.")
71. Being friends with someone one dislikes.
72. Insisting on "I know you".
73. Rejecting someone because of their perceived faults, and stating so.
74. Quoting Shakespeare etc. or using elevated language when discussing a delicate personal issue or when in conflict.
75. Making pro and con lists for whether to stay friends or not.
76. Telling the other person you are afraid to hurt them with your decisions and actions.
77. Correcting a (perceived) bullshitter on their (perceived) bullshit.
78. Telling someone to "get a life".
79. Talking about suicide with someone holding a gun to his head (literally or metaphorically).
80. Saying, "I will carry our friendship until you recover from your (mental) ailments."
81. Entering a new relationship while overwhelmed by loneliness.
82. Entering a new relationship while under a lot of stress (at school, work, financial, ...).
83. Entering a new relationship while still not having recovered from the previous one.
84. Thinking thus, "If only he knew me better [and then making every effort to provide for that], then he will either love me and not harm me, or reject me immediately."
85. Covering for someone, being quiet about someone's crimes.
86. Entering a new relationship while in poor health.
87. Continually explaining and defending oneself.
88. Thinking and acting in the hopes of changing, softening the other person.
89. Being obsessed with, overwhelmed by someone.
90. Overly intense communication, several hours a day, almost every day of the week -- while still being on the level of acquaintances.
91. Lack of fun.
92. Lack of humour.
93. Telling the other person what they should do.
94. Telling the other person what they yet need to learn. (E.g. "You yet need to learn to laugh at yourself.")
95. Talking very intimately very soon.
96. Writing into one's gratitude journal, but being uncomfortable mentioning that other person (but whom one spends a lot of time and energy on, supposedly in friendship).
97. Inequality in a relationship that is called a friendship.
98. Entering a relationship with someone who is unreliable, emotionally unavailable, or needy.
99. Always waiting for the other person to make the first move.


* * *

 

Thank you, Ron. I've learned a lot. But this concert is over.

 

Wow, Ron. Quite the vindictive piece of shit, aren't you?
Don't come across people as scummy as you very often.
Heh.

 

Sure you've learned a lot.

Stuck like glue to expecting to achieve a positive result by negative means, you are now a foremost expert on how to fail, how to deny, how to avoid, how to find fault and what can't be talked through, and with a few more ways yet to add your list, no doubt.

One should rather have seen your list of 100 things to be glad for but never mind. I've had a bit more by way of appreciation at home here recently so that at least is a plus. The ceiling is nearly done now.

Good luck with any further attempt to fuck yourself in that secluded little Hell hole you've dug to hide in.

You know where to find me if you ever decide that it may be worth the risk to be yourself and live a little. If you want to come to Torsansalo some time we'll be glad to send you the fare.

Your concert was misconceived and all out of tune anyway, sheer cacophony, so if that is over, so much the better.

--- Ron.

 

I've got a couple of hours to fill up as I choose before my shift begins, so instead of putting everything on hold, postponing a long reply to your long post till later, why not pick at your post here and there, like cold chicken?

Meantime:
Not to you or to the system: I'm perfectly aware of that. But it is the nature of the fountainhead.

Satyr:
Internet melodrama is sooooooo passé.

Blink. Huh? What? Internet? Melodrama? Passé? I'm not following your witty inference here, your exemplary reasoning: I understand this is the internet, but that can hardly be avoided. And what does melodrama have to do with my quote? Shall we backtrack and find out?

So. The word "fountainhead" is the key word that brought on this ridiculous remark, since it's the only word that pops out from everything else.

And what in the world is so melodramatic about the nature of the fountainhead? Your exemplary reasoning hasn't yet penetrated that threshold, huh? You speak mighty words about flux, the universe, consciousness, master/slave relationships, power, but haven't yet paused to consider the threshold, the nascency of an originator? Come to think of it, emotion plays little emphasis in your theses about this and that and the other — but you very much emphasize indifference everywhere else.

Having emotional difficulties, Satyr? Embarrassed, perhaps, or humiliated that they hold sway on such a predominate figure as Satyr? Or might this have anything to do with Mephistopheles' stain?

Or…

Another key word in your ridiculous reply is "passé": the past, bygone days. The internet. Melodrama. Lightbulb! Might this have anything to do with Thefountainhed? You got a nasty jerk over Thefountainhed, huh? Lol.

 

God, talk about a perplexity of mixed messages.

 

Don't be too hard on Ron, most of those lessons were mine.

Doesn't leave much other than silence, though.