Physics question related to the geography of the Bay of Fundy?

Discussion in 'Earth Science' started by Dennis Tate, Mar 7, 2021.

?

Could high tide levels be up by a meter or more near Truro, N. S?

  1. Yes

    1 vote(s)
    50.0%
  2. No

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. I have got to do some research on this... I think the answer is more complex!

    1 vote(s)
    50.0%
  1. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

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    1,154
    If average ocean levels were to rise by ten centimeters.... .would
    the multiplier effect of the geography of the Bay of Fundy continue?

    The fact that the Bay of Fundy funnels tidal waters plus......
    it is over 170 miles long, (274 kms), it produces high tide level that are tenX to fifteenX over the difference in tidal waters where I live.

    So... could high tide levels near TRuro, N. S. to Moncton, N. B. be up by a meter or more if average ocean levels were to rise by ten centimeters?
     
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  3. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

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    Here is an image that will help to make more sense of this question.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
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  5. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

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    This question helps to explain why I really like the alternative theory on stabilization of the climate put forward by a New Mexico biologist and coach.

    Carl Cantrell :
     
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  7. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    I vote no. It is merely the ambient level that would rise by 10cm, not the amplitude of the wave.
     
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  8. foghorn Valued Senior Member

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    1,009
    This may be of interest to you.

    ''Climate Change, Mean Sea Level and High Tides in the Bay of Fundy.'' pdf.
    https://www.novascotia.ca/nse/climate-change/docs/CC_MSL_HighTides_BoF.pdf
    Authors:
    David A. Greenberg1,*, Wade Blanchard2, Bruce Smith2 and Elaine Barrow3
    1Fisheries and Oceans Canada, Bedford Institute of Oceanography, Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada 2Department of Mathematics and Statistics, Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada 3University of Regina, Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
     
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  9. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,154

    Yes.. .thank you for that.....
    I actually think that I may have read that report.....
    Here is a statistic that I consider to be relevant in the larger picture.....

    and....
    If this statistic is true then this INCREASE of H2O on Antarctica could help to explain how ocean levels have remained relatively stable in spite of all the melting that is taking place on the world's glaciers as well as on the land based Greenland Ice Sheet.
     
  10. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,215
    digging a channel may be a logical answer
    roughly trans Canada highway 16 in a straight line all the way through
    maybe some spill way
    Tintamarre National Wildlife Area
    maybe spill way concrete causeway right down to it and through the right hand side to out the end as a spill way into the sand with the concrete main channel cause way going past it on the right hand side all the way through
    and turn it into a fast moving concreted cause way all the way through
    and probably a large damn across dorchester cape to shut it off completely and allow in flow to maintain farming irrigation and back flow.
    then
    BUILD a DAMN from dorchester cape to hopewell cape
    turn the damned area into a 5 star location resort area with sea side hotels and water activities.
    but it would require government funding

    in theory massively increasing the value & security from flooding of Moncton
    all sorts of options sailing rowing etc etc

    aqua culture

    cliffton to masstown damn spill way and grow mussels & oysters
    Fort Belcher
    Lower Onslow, NS

    Canada
    would be a sea food megga town industry
    mussels & oysters

    Local grown shell fish would be a massive draw card to local grown food for local restaurants
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2021
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  11. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

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    You could well be correct.....
    I actually hope that you are......
    but I am not so sure because the two factors that lead to the Bay of Fundy producing the world's highest tides
    would continue......... even if there were to be a significant rise in ocean levels?!

    There is at least some evidence that indicates that the methane is beginning to be released from the permafrost in the ARctic.


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  12. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

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    That is EXACTLY what my online buddy Mervyn DePendleton proposed for the Isthmus of Chignecto......

     
  13. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,264
    Yes, it seems from the paper Foghorn linked to be far more complicated, with other factors such as isostatic rebound and, most importantly, the effect on the natural resonance period of the Fundy Bay system which may move closer to that of the tides, which can lead to considerable amplification.

    So It looks as if my simplistic idea about this was wrong. Interesting.
    This is very interesting and informative. Clearly a lot more factors involved than I had realised.
     
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  14. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,154

    I plead guilty to having a sarcastic streak in me......
    and I do know that both myself as well as my online friend from New Mexico.....
    we really should have been more polite if we really had wanted to have more of a positive impact on the
    judges of our submissions for the Virgin Earth Challenge back in 2007. You can see how the geography of Nova Scotia has
    affected how I personally look at this question.




    Here is some background information on that:

    https://www.virgin.com/about-virgin/virgin-group/news/virgin-earth-challenge

    If you would like to view my full submission online....
    and Mr. Carl Cantrell's co-submission along with mine.. .just google the title....


    "My two somewhat humorous submissions for $25 million Virgin Earth Challenge."

    .... and it should pop right up?
     
  15. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,264
    Who is this Cantrell person?
     
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  16. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,154
    He is a New Mexico biologist and bicycling coach who is retired or at least semi-retired now.
     
  17. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,154
    If I am not mistaken.....
    the city in China that would tend to be most interested in a plan to attempt to keep ocean levels more stable might be Shanghai because like the Bay of Fundy or Anchorage Alaska they also have a pretty extreme low tide to high tide formula.

    https://tides4fishing.com/as/china/shanghai

     
  18. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,154
    I sure do hope that you are correct.....
    because if high tides were to rise by one meter in the eastern area of the Bay of Fundy, in the event of average ocean levels rising by ten cms then......
    a significant percentage of the top soil of the Isthmus of Chignecto would likely liquify and wash into the Bay of Fundy and probably destroy the fishery there not to mention the damage to lots of valuable real estate????

    Because the Bay of Fundy is more than a hundred and seventy miles long, high tide waters CANNOT completely drain before more high tide waters pile in on top of them. This is why The Bay of Fundy has the world's highest tides and Anchorage, Alaska has the world's second highest tides for similar reasons.



    High tides threaten low-lying Isthmus of Chignecto

    https://www.thechronicleherald.ca/i...reaten-low-lying-isthmus-of-chignecto-247312/


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  19. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

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    So far... the ADDITION of H2O to central Antarctica may have kept ocean levels relatively stable for decades.....
    actually even for centuries???????

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amundsen–Scott_South_Pole_Station


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  20. foghorn Valued Senior Member

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    Double posted.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2021
  21. foghorn Valued Senior Member

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    1,009
    Where do both of those quotes come from? They do not appear in the link you provide.


    For those here interested in the HAB theory mentioned in Dennis' quote …

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_HAB_Theory
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2021
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  22. Bells Staff Member

    Messages:
    24,132
    Mod Note

    While the image is from the wiki page, the quotes are not.

    Can you please provide a source for the quotes you are posting?

    A quick google search saw a few results, all seemingly from you or people who post just like you... Including one on a
    google chat group where you made some fairly wacky claims.

    You have provided several unsourced quotes in this thread. Please provide links to those quotes.
     
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  23. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,154

    It seems that this topic scares some people who are influential in what the mainstream media is willing to deal with in front of a large audience.

    This is one of the best up to date statements related to this that I have found so far.

    NASA Study: Mass Gains of Antarctic Ice Sheet Greater than Losses
    https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddar...s-of-antarctic-ice-sheet-greater-than-losses/

    Just so that you understand the context.....
    that Google discussion that you refer to has me.... quoting Mr.Maxime Bernier.... and then I disagree with him and suggest that his People's Party of Canada go off in a very different direction on the climate than he suggests.



    The following title is quoted from Mr. Maxime Bernier:

    "Global Warming and Environment: Rejecting Alarmism and Focusing on Concrete Improvements"

    ... but my response to him suggest that his new political party go off in a very different direction than he has written up.

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...and-focusing-on-concrete-improvements.557480/

    by me... DennisTate on that forum.



    Since 2007 I've been promoting an alternative theory on stabilization of the climate. I take climate change itself very seriously, especially the threat of rising ocean levels but......... I regard a Carbon Tax or Cap and Trade System as a colossal waste of money, time, energy and talent. I believe that only nations with lots of desert are in a position to do what needs to be done to address the threat of rising ocean levels.

    If Canadians were aware of how much H2O was being added to the central region of Antarctica they would know that a Carbon Tax is a joke played on an underinformed population.
    "At a symposium of the Union of Geodesy and geophysics, Dr. Pyyotor Shoumsky reported that the south polar ice cap was growing at a minimum rate of 293 cubic miles of ice annually. To put that number in perspective, Lake Erie contains only 109 cubic miles of water. Thus, a volume of ice forms on top of the existing ice at Antarctica each year which is almost three times the volume of water in Lake Erie!" (Expanded Discussion of The HAB Theory, Gershom Gale, Expanded Discussion on the HAB Theory.)


    ......

    Mega scale desalination of ocean water in Israel, Jordan, Australia, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, California, Tunisia, Morocco and in other nations with lots of desert is the response to climate change that I recommend.

    ......

    We Canadians attempt to be reasonably good neighbours so after visiting Truro, N. S., and
    Moncton, N. B., so many times in my sixty years I find myself asking questions that people in
    Ottawa don't seem to be looking at in a very objective manner.

    If average ocean levels rose by eight to ten cms (3 or 4 inches) could high tide...

    ... rise by one meter in the Isthmus of Chignecto in Nova Scotia, Canada?
    This question is logical because the geography of Canada's Bay of Fundy produces the world's highest tides. In my part of Nova Scotia in Guysborough County there is very little funnelling of tidal waters......... so high tide is only about one to one point five meters above low tide.

    In the eastern area of the Bay of Fundy high tide levels are up by ten to fifteen meters.

    .......
    Mr. Mervyn DePendleton came up with a brilliant and practical possible solution to the situation faced in the eastern area of the Bay of Fundy where tides are the most extreme.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!




    (Mervyn DePendleton) :
    "Well from an engineering point of view if it was a sure thing and time would allow the answer is not going to be try to air condition the Antarctic. I would think in terms of cutting a relief channel. That would be between Sackville and Amherst would be to excavate a canal that would only start to receive water when the tide is up approximately the half of normal height and this canal would have to continue sloping down and terminate in the Gulf of St. Lawrence across from PEI.

    No doubt such an undertaking would get bad reviews from a lot of environmentalist but it could save some of the low level human habitation on the banks of the Bay of Fundy. When I visited the area I remember on the N.B. side that there was a lot of high ground as you went inland from the shore of the Bay.

    Another approach would be to think like the Seaway Project where Cardinal and Morrisburg and lots of farms and places on the Canadian side of the St. Lawrence were moved and the land flooded with the power dam near Cornwall. The idea with Fundy would in the energy extraction view would be to tell all the low land people to hit it, your property is ruined. At the sea entrance somewhere more in the direction toward St. John to create a one way valve type mechanism. Let the tide water come rushing and don't let it leave right away. When the tide forces have receded then release the water through turbines to generate electricity. From half tide to low tide and back to just coming back again all the stored water has to be used. It might also be possible to get some energy out of the water when it is rushing in at high tide.

    I'm sure some high math and some good engineers could get the greatest benefit possible from conditions we otherwise cannot control. Also do not give up on the earth getting ever hotter as it may well be cooling for a while before us. All the end of world alarmist like Paul Ehrlich and the peak oil we would be burning camel dung by 1999 alarmist have all failed miserably in their predictions. The big problem with all of them is that they are trying to tell us something about the future. Conservative minded people know the secret, if you want to predict the future get out in front of it and do something to shape the future with your own hands.

    A good place to get better views of the climate future is here:" (Mervyn DePendleton)
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2021

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