Placebo-controlled clinical trials

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by Sarkus, Dec 14, 2021.

  1. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,077
    As a trainee Midwife used to receive a few tips, in the form of box of chocolates

    Sometimes crew on duty would receive large box to share around. Occasionally the tip would be each staff member receiving a small individual box

    Once, as a Midwife I received a cheque for $25 since the mother had bought all female staff perfume but did not know what to buy me

    As Government workers we were not allowed to receive tips. But apparently a PM, John Howard, at the time was allowed to be given a new fangled, at the time, colour flat screen TV

    I also recall a staff member gave a lecture where a medical equipment sales representative was allowed to attend, apparently to fill in some blanks about how the company stuff was used

    At the end of the lecture he gave the presenter a very modest First Aid Kit, car glove box type

    She was very embarrassed and said something to the effect of using the kit as a prop in her talks ie it would not be hers

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2021
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,549
    Guinea pigs, like Jews in the Holocaust.
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,077
    Utter utter crappy crap crap

    Post, my 2 cents, requires an apology

    Sad a post could sink so low

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,935
    No. They are all volunteers, and they are told what they are volunteering for. But nice try.
     
  8. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    21,635
    Sometimes they are. You can of you want.
    Again, you can tip them if you like. I have a few friends who are flight attendants. They sometimes get tips.
    Well, for one thing, compare what a waiter and a doctor make - then consider which needs the money from tips more.
     
  9. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    21,635
    I dare you to find the family of someone who lived through the Holocaust and tell them "eh, what your family went through is just like a vaccine trial."

    See what they say. (Record it and post it here; it would be fun to watch.)
     
    RainbowSingularity likes this.
  10. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,549
    I wasn't expecting to be taken quite literal.
     
    DaveC426913 likes this.
  11. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    21,635
    Ah, sorry. It's hard to tell sarcasm on here. (And that's another good example of Poe's Law.)
     
    RainbowSingularity likes this.
  12. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,447
    lol
    im not sure the comparison is quit the same
    there is a few key differences
    but superficially in a very broad stroke of the brush
    yes ethics

    ive read a considerable amount of WWII & those subjects
    there is a different level of ethics between prisoner human rights
    & human rights of free middle class liberal people

    who has access to self educate ?
    who has access to choose their own type & equality of food & medicine & exercise ?

    etc
    yes & no
    i think your comment is useful to help define some concepts when it comes to the complex reality of ethics in different formats
    no shortage of lessons
    just a shortage of good people to carry them out & learn/teach/disseminate them

    a doctor
    100k
    a private butler/concierge/personal attendant... maybe combined 75 to 100k including rent
    maybe as high s 115k including rent
    imagine what type of food & wine knowledge a top level personal attendant would need
    compared to a poor quality nurse
    the nurse has a crappy uniform
    the personal attendant needs to be dressed in expensive looking trendy clothes
    etc
    costs versus ... what ?

    is the kart being put in front of the horse ?

    nurse is around 55k

    needs based ?

    doctors student loan from medical school = $200,000.00
    waiter ?
    or butler ?
    or personal attendant ?
    Concierge/ front of house manager

    is there an 'increments of ethics' (or morals) going on ?
    a law of diminishing returns based on what ?
    subjective class valuation ?
    you see where this is going ...

    lol
    actually no
    dont
    that would be abusive
    & almost a hate crime
    & posting such media of them would constitute an actual hate crime
    i know quite a few lovely jewish people
    some kosher
    some might laugh it off while others would be deeply offended
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2021
  13. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    37,884
    We should observe, though I'm not a subscriber to that particular newspaper and thus don't have the article, that early reports on the Paxilovid, the Pfizer pill to treat Covid 19 infection, is moving to emergency distribution because the trials returned such a successful result it was determined unethical to keep patients on the placebo.
     
    RainbowSingularity likes this.
  14. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,447
    dif country's have dif rules for laws covering ethics
    as you probably know
    sad irony that heads of state & some high ranking officials can receive gifts but lower ranked govt employees cant

    i know a govt employee who was given roughly 12 to 14 weeks salary as a tip but had to give it back because of govt laws on gifts

    iv met the gift giver & the gift receiver who had to return it for govt laws
    they are both good people
    the gift giver is a multi billionaire only met them briefly in passing


    ive spoken to many doctors who say a lot of the companys promo gifts are rubbish because they have no practical use &/or made from non durable material & is just a label platform to reinforce their brand

    but what the doctors want is something that is durable useful & doesn't look cheap n shitty
    simple minimalist durable & useful & they have a winner
    but that requires good quality materials & lower production quantity.


    i should illustrate my point precisely
    my point is
    from my perspective
    1
    it appears that tipping of food service workers is seen as a social & economic compulsory action
    so why is it not defined in wages instead of turned into a bullying tool to abuse low wage people with ?

    2
    why is it only food service workers
    when often the term "service worker" is used as a financial class assignment to also include social class
    subconscious bias/classicism ? (overt covert etc etc)

    3
    needs based
    needs based would suggest standardized pay rates
    new york city bar tender
    probably paid quit a lot
    so should need or not need the tips from the rich & shameless ?

    its a fake need
    a need which in fact is a "guilt" selling process
    ... further more

    selling that guilt by giving away small tokens of money to the rich privileged
    to pretend your helping make up for the economic & political system designed to abuse the low income worker


    for the confused reader...
    im not anti tips
    im anti no minimum good balanced wage rates & anti no minimum safe working conditions


    easy trick for those with sensitive brains & processors & eyes
    just use your mouse to highlight all my coloured text & it changes it all to uniform colour easy to read & is set at your own contrast levels that YOU set up in your browser & monitor/screen
    (im just following my subconscious choice of colours)
    "ethics"
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2021
  15. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,077
    Much of the promo medication from sales reps were obviously the company brand. Very few of the nurses bought birth control pills since doctors in the relevant clinic had so many free samples

    Left in a open draw, not remain long

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
    sculptor likes this.

Share This Page