planets orbit like their stars vibrate ?

Discussion in 'Alternative Theories' started by nebel, Feb 16, 2017.

  1. nebel

    Langton, Adam P. Showman. Planet-induced Stellar Pulsations in HAT-P-2's Eccentric System. The Astrophysical Journal, 2017; 836 (2): L17 DOI: 10.3847/2041-8213/836/2/L17
    "- oscillations in the star's light, with a period of about 90 minutes, that happened to be exact multiples of the planet's orbital frequency.-"
    As possibly in the solar system, where the 5 min solar pulsation could be a link to the 300 light second pattern in the planet diameter differences, still alternate theories?
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  3. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

    If you are still saying that the suns pulsation is causing the planets to orbit as they do, then yes it is pseudoscience.
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2017
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  5. nebel

    The article says it could be either way, with a huge planet sometimes that close, they mention, that it is the planet's timing that triggers, or controls the star's pulsations. With our modest planet masses, and in the formation phase, it is probably the massive star's pulsations that influence planets orbits here.
    The above seems to be the first [exo] planet orbit / star pulsation correlation published, apart from our solar systems link, so wait and see, the last word has not been said yet.
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2017
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  7. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

    That, my intrepid young fellow, is called an alternate theory.
    I will request that the mods move this to the proper section.
  8. nebel

    I suggested that much, but the Article touches on alternate explanations of the correlation, and is from serious sources, MIT, The Astrophysical Journal, me pointing out possible solar system similarities, does not render it purely "pseudoscience, alternate". Perhaps
    This gem will set a first step in solving the eight-fold Bode coincidence ?
  9. nebel

    or: Stellar Pulsation induced eccentric planetary orbits in the Solar system? perhaps you can't have none,- you can't have one without the other, brother?
    HAT-P-2 ~ 90 minutes & multiples,
    SUN : 5 light minutes and multiples:

    Mercury-Venus-Earth ~.3 A ( 5 light minutes), Orbit diameter spacings
    Saturn-Uranus-Neptune-Pluto ~ 9.6 AU ( 32 x .3 AU or 160 light minutes) "
    Earth - Saturn in doubling orbit spacings. Earth+.6 M, +1.2.A, +2.4 J , +4.8 Saturn or
    A geometric series from Pluto to Mercury with planets missing below Venus because the gap is (< .3) and Neptune added because the gap with Pluto is > than 9.6 AU, 160 ls.)
    now that is numerology written in the stars. 9 predictable positions, and now HAT-P-2
  10. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    So why don't you take your own medicine? Your steadfast refusal to recognize reason and evidence doesn't mean I haven't made my case. I've pointed out several times now your argument doesn't hold water. You have refused to recognize the last century.

    Unfortunately for you, I'm not. You haven't provided any evidence to support your contention that the American press misrepresented the German people or their intentions. You comrade are doing what you do best, i.e. cherry picking. You are being intellectually dishonest.

    It's good of you not to rule out the idea that Hitler might have lied to his people. But that really isn't the issue here. It isn't relevant to your contentions about the American press or Bradley's book.

    Unfortunately for you comrade I have addressed the issues you have raised several times now. Your ignoring and denying them isn't going to change anything comrade. You have to ignore the last century in an attempt to make sense of your beliefs.

    I've ignored nothing. Just because you don't like reality, it doesn't mean I've ignored anything comrade. Your problem is you haven't proven "mainstream" sources aren't credible as you need them to be. So you resort to fake news and other equally specious sources.

    You are repeating yourself comrade? Have you noting else to say? You are obfuscating comrade. You cannot defend your assertions, so you continue to obfuscate.

    The only one avoiding the issues here is you comrade. I have repeatedly pointed out the holes in your assertions. You continue to pretend it never happened. You have steadfastly refused to recognize the last century. Your best evidence for your contention is an American general who lived more than a century ago. You have steadfastly refused to recognize things have changed, and those changes have been specifically brought to your attention.

    Denial isn't a river in Egypt comrade.

    Pointing out your hypocrisy and your refusal to recognize evidence, and that before you accuse others of something you should take a long and serious look at yourself isn't avoiding the issue comrade. It is the issue.

    Yeah, you don't like credible sources of information. I think we have well established that fact. Instead you prefer specious and obviously false sources of information. And when your errors are pointed out to you you obfuscate. You initiate personal attacks, and when all else fails, you resort to beating your chest and declaring yourself victorious. The internet is full of people like you comrade.

    Unfortunately for you, not everyone is as brain dead and as uneducated as you need them to be. You have to ignore a century of history in an attempt to make sense of your assertions.

    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 21, 2017
  11. nebel

    comparing these orbits to the Solar system i would predict that the star, Trappist-1 has a basic pulsation rates of ~ 4 and ~8 seconds.
  12. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

    Back up the idiotic statement you just shat, why don't you?
  13. nebel

    if TRAPPIST-1 follows the pattern of the SOLAR system and HAT-2, it would have a Eigenschwingung of ~4, or ~8 seconds. compared to 90 min for Hat, 5 minutes for Sun.
    see the 6 planet alignment (with another 5% accuracy) in the main astronomy topic. for confirmation (not of the sequence, that is done), we need to see the pulsation of the Trappist.
    let us hear the brother Trapp tap.
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2017
  14. nebel

    If you created a sequence
    b #1 .o11 AU --leave out planet c #1.5 .o15 AU*
    d #2 .021 AU
    e #3 .023 AU
    f #4 .037 AU
    g #5 .045 AU
    #6 no planet at .o53 AU
    h #7 .06 AU
    You have 6 planets that are within 5% of a sequence that a spacing of .008 AU.
    based on the fact that 1 AU in diameter is 1000 light seconds, each of these increments translate 8 light seconds or a possible 8 minute pulsation, based on
    the fact that the solar pulsation of 300 seconds is analog to the .3 AU basic orbit difference between Mercury-Venus-Earth and multiples thereof outward.
    The Trappist system follows a repetitive spacing suggesting another standing wave pattern like the one possible among our planets. * planet "c" No.1.5 is .004 or 4 light seconds from #no1, or exactly 1/2 of the most prominent orbital diameter distance. 8 light seconds.
    Toad: Your profanity is totally uncalled for bsw.
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2017
  15. nebel

    here is the theoretical "nebel" sequence of the TRAPPIST planetary system:
    n0. 1 .0118 AU
    no. 2 .0202 AU
    no.3 .0232 AU
    no.4 .0356 AU
    no.5 .0446 AU
    po.6 .0528 AU empty
    no.7 .061 AU
    ~ .0082 AU apart. = 8.2 light seconds
    compare to real data above. the "nebel" sequence matches the published data with , 5% accuracy. numerology at it's finest.
    PS: No 1.5 planet "c" .016 AU real orbit: .o15 AU 6.7% off, ouch.
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2017
  16. nebel

    I would predict another planet at .09 -.o94 AU. based on the observation that the sequence has started to double at planet "g" No.5. outward, similar to the solar system, where doubling of orbit spacings starts at Earth.
    Your eyes : I would second that, and hope they start by looking at the vibes of the Trappist.
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2017
  17. nebel

    The Trappist system has 2 doublings of orbit diameters,
    1) planet b - c - d ~ 4 light seconds, d-e ~ 8 light seconds.
    2) planets f-g ~ 8 light seconds, g-h ~16 light seconds
    3) predicted planet x at +~ 32 light seconds,from "h", at~ .092 AU
    I AU~ 1000 light seconds orbit diameter.
  18. nebel

    • Please do not knowingly tell lies.
    UNSW Sydney
    A study of the internal sound waves created by starquakes, which make stars ring like a bell, has provided unprecedented insights into conditions in the turbulent gas clouds where stars were born 8 billion years ago
    "It's remarkable that the imprint of these initial conditions can still be seen billions of years later, by studying tiny oscillations in stars that are many light years away," he says from science daily, nature mag.
    just to point out that there is a connection between the condition in the planetary fields and star's ringing pulsations.
  19. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    There is no such connection, as I already explained to you, only yesterday, in detail, here:

    It is scandalous that you repeat this nonsense, which shows a wilful misrepresentation of the research you refer to.

    I've reported you as a liar. I guess we'll see whether lies are acceptable in the Alt Theory section.
  20. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    For any other readers, the researchers used asteroseismology to identify the spin orientation of stars. They did this in old galaxies where the dust and gas had dissipated, as it is impossible to use the technique when dust and gas obscure the measurements.

    I quote a para from the abstract of the paper which describes this:

    " Asteroseismology, the study of stellar oscillations, has proven to be a powerful tool to obtain model-independent information on the inclination angle of the stellar angular momentum vector, especially for red giant stars7,8,10,11. Red giants are typically low- and intermediate-mass stars that have evolved off the main sequence of the stellar evolution. Most red giants oscillate, and their oscillations can be analysed through a Fourier frequency spectrum of their light curve. The spectrum of a red giant contains a comb-like structure of tens and sometimes more than a hundred radial and non-radial oscillation modes, most of which are mixed modes originating from the coupling between acoustic and gravity modes"

    It then goes on to explain that the spectrum splits in the presence of spin (it doesn't say but I presume due to Doppler frequency difference between advancing and retreating sides of the star) and how they extract spin information from the splitting.

    If anyone is interested, the abstract of the paper is here (I also included this link on the other thread in Astronomy):

    There is fcuk-all connection between the oscillation of the stars and the disappearance of the gas and dust. Obviously. I explained this on the other thread in the Astronomy section but this obsessive has simply ignored it and deliberately repeated the misrepresentation, here, a mere 24hrs later!

    Last edited: Mar 16, 2017
  21. nebel

    as mentioned in the astronomy section, although there might not be at this moment a direct connection between unrelated phenomena, as for example the spin, and the oscillations , conditions of the gas clouds, who is to ay that solving one puzzle will not lead to shedding light into another, comparisons, analogies are always fascinating. obscenities uncalled for. imho.
  22. RADII Registered Senior Member

    You don't understand that article at all, do you? Let's fill in the blanks: "The extensive coverage allows us to better differentiate instrumental systematics from the transient heating of HAT-P-2 b's 4.5 μm photosphere and yields the detection of stellar pulsations with an amplitude of approximately 40 ppm. These pulsation modes correspond to exact harmonics of the planet's orbital frequency, indicative of a[n extra-solar] tidal origin. Transient tidal effects can excite pulsation modes in the envelope of a star, but, to date, such pulsations had only been detected in highly eccentric stellar binaries."

    "The planet's mass has been estimated to be 8.65 times that of Jupiter, while its diameter, at 135,978 km (84,493 mi), is 0.951 times Jupiter's. Its small size, despite the bloating of the planet's atmosphere, is caused by the strong gravity of the planet. This indicates its mean density is twice that of Earth and its surface gravityapproximately 24 times that on Earth, almost equal to the Sun. The orbit is very eccentric, ranging from 4.90 million to 15.36 million miles from the star." []

    A mass that large, orbiting that closely (& therefore rapidly) can not help but perturb the accompanying stellar atmosphere.

    No aether, no quantum-foam conveyed instructions, no mystery.
  23. nebel


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