Please read this with an open mind.

Discussion in 'Free Thoughts' started by thecurly1, Sep 16, 2001.

  1. Pollux V Ra Bless America Registered Senior Member

    For some reason in school I heard people mentioning that the wtc had blown up, but, for reasons UNBENKNOWNST to me I never, ever paid any heed of them, never gave them a second thought. I...just...can't...figure out why. Finally I got to my first government class and the teacher was in hysterics because her daughter worked near the wtc (she's fine). I will never, ever forget that day for as long as I live, and look forward to tell my grandchildren or great grandchildren about this event. It's just mind boggling how horrified I heard her say "the world trade center is gone, it HAS BEEN LEVELED." I always thought that it was invinsible, and was proud to be a human because of such a technological and architectural achievement. I think that if they rebuild them that it should be much taller, much grander than before. I go to NYC every thanksgiving, and used to live there till I was six, and you honestly do not know what it's like experiencing the bowels of manhattan. The smells of freshly baked soft pretzels, the dark, pale light that eminates from the cloudy sky and the echoes of cars and their horns reverbrating throughout the incredible reflective buildings. I remember standing at the wtc for the first time, I had to crane my neck so much to see the top (i was standing right next to it) that I almost fell over backwards. It was magical. NYC has lost some of its witches brew that makes it so special, that makes it the unoffical capital of the world.
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  3. kcollings Registered Member


    Thanks for clarifying your thoughts for me. I agree with you and understand what you're saying. I guess maybe I'm a little sensative with everything that's going on right now and I misunderstood your meaning at first. I do agree with you about not taking action out of revenge and anger. I hope everyone can work together to somehow put a stop to these terrorist attacks, without having a lot of innocent people getting killed. Thanks for your message and your patience!
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  5. Patman just one of the lost Registered Senior Member


    First of all I would like to say. Your still missing the point, this will not just go away. Last I heard there were 63 nations that lost people in this terrorist attack. But we lost the most. I'm worried about my children! Not theirs! Obviously they don't care about their children either if they're putting guns in there hands and shooting at a picture of our president. I'm all for free speech, but when they attacked they crossed the line and from this line there should be no return. Reality seem to elude a lot of people. These people that did this our insane. Out of the f***ing minds. This is not our fault. No one is squeaky clean in the world, I can live with this. Of course there are strings attached to our actions in the world. If you haven't noticed that's the way the world works. Reality might suck but it still remains reality. I said I don't care how many innocent people die, not to start bombing innocent people. You don't see that I'm a realist. You see words that you don't agree with. Your a dreamer if you think that this will be resolved peacefully. I say again WAKE UP! THINK ABOUT THE ENEMY! WHO THEY ARE, WHAT THERE ABOUT, WHY THEY HATE US FROM BIRTH! I feel we should take any and all action to prevent this from ever happening again. TALKING WON'T DO IT! TRY TO REASON WITH PEOPLE THAT ARE INSANE? I'M SORRY THAT YOU THINK I'M NARROW MINDED. BUT YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT THAT SOMETIMES VIOLENCE IS THE ONLY SOLUTION!
    If there was a way to do this I would be all for it! I don't need to see blood to give me peace of mind! I'm a pacifist by nature, but I'm not blind to the fact that this is the chance to eradicate terrorism against all nations. LIFE SUCKS! To insure the safety of my children and country, I would do anything! I'm 31 years old and thinking of enlisting. Not the greatest career move at this point, but I would put my body where my mouth is. I'm sorry you can't understand. Sometimes you have to realize there is no peaceful solution.
    Again you just read words on a screen, if you knew me you might understand. I posted exactly what I know has to happen to unsure the safety of my children and country.
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  7. thecurly1 Registered Senior Member

    Enough Said.

    We have been raped of our sense of security, freedom, and liberties when days ago evil incarnate struck ot against the souls in New York, Washington D.C. and Pennsylvania. Never again may the world look upon the values that we have lived by the same again.

    What happened on September 11, 2001 will be where history book chapters begin and end. At this spectacular juncture, we are poised now to fill the pages of those chapters for the ages. My hope is to see a day when terrorism's only sanctuary is in the glossary of an American History book. The only way of achieving such a goal, and to fulfill the prayers of millions is to fight this dark foce and never stop until it has been vanquished from the world.

    The unprovoked killing of innocent people makes Osama Bin Laden no different than Adolf Hitler except for in numbers.

    May God Bless Us All.
  8. Patman just one of the lost Registered Senior Member


    Well said as always. Sorry for my rant or two. But I am not some lunatic from America that is just blowing off steam. I did the math and I understand what I've said goes against what any peace loving person would believe. But I know in my heart I'm right.
    I'm not trying to push your buttons. I love your country. The best vacation I ever had was in Victoria B.C. The place is beautiful. There is a lot we can learn from Canada. I respect your opinions and I respect the fact that your looking for peaceful resolutions, in light of this tragic event. But sadly I can't see any possibility of a peaceful solution.
  9. thecurly1 Registered Senior Member

    Thanks Patman, I understand.
  10. Teri Curious Registered Senior Member

    My 2 cents.

    Hi all,
    I can see how hotly debated this topic will continue to be and after reading everyone thoughts I tend to support the words of both Tmegency and Quaid.

    Quaid, who said
    "I think the world events in recent world history need to be looked at in greater detail, kept in perspective and an entire world view needs to be taken, not just a narrow interpretation of this event.

    If money or aid is truly being given to other countries, then for what purpose? Out of the kindness of America's heart? Are there strings attached?

    But I also don't believe "the people" have any real say in the political or economic scene in the country to any great extent."


    Tmegeney who wrote:
    "A war that would attempt to eliminate terrorism would be similar to a war on drugs. Idealist and impossible to win.

    As far as chemical and nuclear weapons go, who knows? But the prevailing opinion in the intelligence field is that currently Afghanistan has neither. Pakistan however has both. That is part of the reason why the US sought to get Pakistan on their side."

    I think, (and it's only my opinion)
    Everyone seems to be skirting the topic of the nuclear threat that is now a very, very real possibility. My feeling is that America will do their utmost to get it right in terms of justice, however I think that nuclear retaliation from any side or country is at the forefront of the minds of the decision makers. We can argue all we like. Our hearts have been ripped apart. Mending them is going to take ..... a miracle.

    Take care everyone,
  11. runveus Registered Member

    Question... Could the trajic events of Sept. 11th been avoided had Pres. Clinton's request for funds to pursue Bin Laden been granted six years ago when he asked for it?
  12. Patman just one of the lost Registered Senior Member

    runveus, Welcome to sciforum
    Very hard question to answer. First we don't even know if we fingered the right man? Second, We don't know how far Clinton would have gone to put an end to the terrorist group(s) if he did in fact get the funding. And last but not least the scarcest thing of all is even if we got Bin Laden, there is no lack of people to take over were he left off. Their infrastructure is far greater then anyone gave credit. It crosses many borders and enjoys the sympathy of many people. Six years ago we didn't have the sympathy of the world on our side and today even having it we could fall short of reaching this goal. They do not want our presents there for many reasons. Even the people that show some support for the U.S. are only doing it because from one angle or another they're being squeezed. The politics behind this are ridiculous. One thing we have to remember is these are a war hardened people that are no strangers to defending their beliefs. This will get ugly.
  13. kmguru Staff Member

    Hi runveus:

    welcome to sciforums. First you have to ask this question to yourself. If you are the president of a large country and a super power dropped a specially constructed bomb to kill you that went through a heavily fortified underground bunker, and humiliated you and your people, - would not you want to take revenge?

    What would be the best way to take revenge without your name being exposed? Remember you are the president/dictator of your country. Then you will have the answer (not necessarily the truth).
  14. thecurly1 Registered Senior Member

    I hate playing the blame game or "what if", because both tend to spiral down into entanglement and stagnicity along the way of debate.

    But anyone willing to make the government under Clinton or Bush Sr. responsible for the attacks must look at one brutual fact. The American people have to take some of the blame as well.

    I seriously believe that President Clinton and possibly the CIA knew of Bin Laden's responsibility in the first WTC attack, and definately in the embassies, and the USS Cole.

    Just think if he had wanted to respond in the way that we plan on doing now back in 1998, what the response would be by the American people. With a super boyant stockmarket, abundance of wealth, and a relitively perfect nation, do you belive we would have backed invading Afghanistan. No, Clinton's head would have been called for on a stick if it was even mentioned three years ago.

    This is a government by the people, for the people. We control our government by voting and more importantly by using the media as our bully pulpit to talk to government. We were isolationists and were afraid to put lives on the line before it got worse.

    But hey I don't like to play the blame game.
  15. runveus Registered Member

    I can appreciate both points of view. Pres. Clinton "might" have peek of his career both politically and socially. The idea "might" have been perceived as a ridiculous stunt from an egomanic who'd use such a stand to boost his political career in away that would surpass his presidency. Maybe.
    I do think that the threats from bin Laden as well has from any other terrorist groups have taken too lightly.
    Women seem to be able to keep their homes strong and in order, more so than men would be able to. With that statement made, if I were the President of a large country such a tragedy would not have occured.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    Thanks for the warm welcome guys!!!
  16. Chagur .Seeker. Registered Senior Member

    Just a reminder ....

    Lebanon Deployment -- Aug. 25, 1982 to Feb. 26, 1984:
    Bombing of 24 MAU HQ, Beirut International Airport, Oct. 23, 1983;
    241 Americans died, 220 Marines, 18 Sailors and 3 Soldiers.

    Eighteen years later the war is finally brought to our shores ... and there are those who are shocked ... "Why would anyone hate us?" ... And a President declaring war on 'terrorism' and all that support it ... the President of a country whose citizens have supported 'terrorism' with both with money and weapons for over thirty years in Northern Ireland ... The madness ... The hypocracy!

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