Pres. Obama

Discussion in 'Politics' started by deepslate, Jan 12, 2017.

  1. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    This is going to be verrry painful for you, Youreyes, but I am going to post some actual facts here. Sorry
    Total employment in 2009 when Obama took office: 134,053
    Total employment as of Dec 2016: 145,303
    Yes, we had the Bush recession there. Fortunately, the number has been dropping ever since.
    Obama has cut the deficit by more than half, and has gotten rid of more government employees than any other president.
    2009 deficit, as he entered office: $1.4 trillion
    2016 deficit: $587 billion

    Again, I apologize for the pain that these facts may cause you. Fortunately you will not have to deal with facts for much longer - Trump is entering the White House, and he is one of the most dishonest candidates ever. You will be able to read his tweets and believe every one of his lies. That should make you feel better.
     
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  3. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Problem is, had he NOT intervened there, he would have been blasted as "weak" or "spineless"... with those, he was damned if he did, damned if he didn't...

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  5. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Let's look at your assertions:

    First, your number is greatly inflated, let's get that off the table right off the bat. The real number is 8,361,602 per the Bureau of Labor Statistics. https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS1500000

    Why do you think this number is important? What does it tell you and why do you think it is alarming or in anyway bad?

    The decline in the workforce is mostly attributable to changing demographics which have nothing to do with Obama. It has everything to do with the Baby Boomers retiring from the work force.

    When people voluntarily withdraw from the workforce, they are doing so because they have alternatives to work, i.e. the don't need to work. That's generally not a bad thing comrade. I'm one of those people. I voluntarily retired at the age of 57. I didn't need to work, and deliberately chose not to work. I had earned and saved enough money to be able to make that choice. Now please explain why you and yours think that is a bad thing during a period of higher unemployment owning to the Great Recession.

    Well, here is the thing, your today, was more than 4 years ago...oops...a little deception or ignorance on your part comrade. But even then, your assertion is just not true.

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    That could be truthfully said of each of the preceding presidents owing to a growing population.

    Again, that could be truthfully said of every preceding president in recent memory. So why do you want to single out Obama and blame it all on him? The fact is the nation's population is growing so it's not surprising that more and more people are on food stamps. There are long-term wealth inequality problems within the US and with a Republican congress blocking every attempt to mitigate this problem, Obama hasn't been able to buck the trend.

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    That's just pure unmitigated bullshit. The number of Americans on disability have been pretty stable. It rose a bit during the recession, but has returned to historical norms. By the way, the population of Cuba is about 12 million people, there are far more people on disability than exist in Cuba. Someone made this up out of whole cloth comrade.

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    Again comrade, that is pure unmitigated bullshit. The nation still has a AAA credit rating. The US did suffer a credit downgrade in 2012 by one rating agency, but not because of Obama's spending, but because of repeated Republican attempts to cause a debt default.

    "Fitch Ratings on March 21, 2014 upgraded its outlook for the U.S. AAA credit rating, removing the nation from a downgrade watch after politicians put off another debt limit battle until next year. The company, one of three major credit rating firms, changed the outlook for the rating to stable from a negative watch put in place in October.[36]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite...credit-rating_downgrades#Improving_the_rating

    Unfortunately for you comrade, facts do matter.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2017
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  7. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Sadly, not enough for anything to be done...

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  8. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Now let's take a look at this particular piece of shit. If when you refer to "managed to screw up lives of so many people" you mean Putin and his cronies, no Putin and his cronies did that all on their own. With respect to healthcare, read'em and weep comrade:


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    http://www.forbes.com/sites/dandiam...icas-uninsured-rate-is-below-10/#17e4ef30741c

    Once again your "facts" are bullshit. At no time in American history have more people had healthcare insurance: thanks to Obama and his Democrats.

    Where did you get your crap about bombs and "multitude of countries"? Where's the evidence comrade? The truth is Obama inherited two different wars in two different countries. He ended each of those wars. Facts matter; the truth matters comrade.

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  9. Schmelzer Valued Senior Member

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    Obama. Hm. The moral side:
    Signing "killing lists" for drone murders in foreing countries without any declaration of war.
    Interpreting the "no-fly-zone" UNSC resolution for Libya as allowing bombing Libyan territory.
    Supporting an openly fascist coup in the Ukraine.
    Supporting child head cutters in Syria.

    The political side:
    Started two wars, Libya and Syria, above great failures.
    Failed to end two failed wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.
    Forced Russia and China into an anti-American strategic alliance - the most horrible imaginable outcome for US foreign policy.
     
  10. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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  11. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah, let's look at those "killing lists", they were and are terrorists leaders; members is al-Qaeda to be more precise. So do you have problems with killing terrorists?

    And why is it you have no problem with your beloved Mother Russia's intentional and repeated bombing of civilians, including innocent children, in Syria?

    The US, with many other nations, participated in enforcing a United Nations Security Council Resolution. There is nothing illegal or untoward in that comrade.

    "On 19 March 2011, a multi-state NATO-led coalition began a military intervention in Libya, ostensibly to implement United Nations Security Council Resolution 1973. The United Nations Intent and Voting was to have "an immediate ceasefire in Libya, including an end to the current attacks against civilians, which it said might constitute crimes against humanity" ... "imposing a ban on all flights in the country's airspace – a no-fly zone – and tightened sanctions on the Qadhafi regime and its supporters." The resolution was taken in response to events during the Libyan Civil War,[19] and military operations began, with American and British naval forces firing over 110 Tomahawk cruise missiles,[20] the French Air Force, British Royal Air Force, and Royal Canadian Air Force[21] undertaking sorties across Libya and a naval blockade by Coalition forces.[22] French jets launched air strikes against Libyan Army tanks and vehicles.[23][24] The Libyan government response to the campaign was totally ineffectual," https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_military_intervention_in_Libya

    That's funny comrade, and you know that's not true. You have no of a fascist coup much less the US openly supported a fascist coup. Facts matter comrade, and you shouldn't be mindlessly repeating Russian state propaganda.

    Obama has not supported child head cutters anywhere, much less in Syria. When you make these kinds of wild ass assertions for which you have no evidence, you greatly diminish whatever credibility you may have. Not everyone is as brainwashed as you and your fellow Russians. We aren't in your beloved Mother Russia, facts and reason matter here.

    And here is the thing, for some reason you have no qualms about your Russian buddy, Assad using chemicals, gases, and barrel bombs to murder children as he has repeatedly done. You have no problems with your beloved Mother Russia intentionally and repeatedly bombing civilians and hospitals.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/un-letter-syria-russia-airstrikes-1.3892068

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_chemical_weapons_in_the_Syrian_civil_war

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghouta_chemical_attack

    http://www.vox.com/world/2016/9/22/13000276/assad-putin-bombing-syrian-hospitals-aleppo

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...-putin-s-sick-strategy-bombing-hospitals.html

    http://www.voanews.com/a/white-house-scolds-russia-syria-for-aleppo-hospital-bombing/3603754.html

    http://www.businessinsider.com/evid...target-underground-hospitals-in-syria-2016-10

    Unfortunately for you comrade, the world isn't as brain dead and brainwashed as you and your fellow Russians are.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2017
  12. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    23,328
    As Putin would say... "Hey Obama is my kind of guy!!! "
     
  13. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    hmmm I wonder what was on page 2
    hee hee.. Sculptor...shame on you!!

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  14. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    I would take you to task on this... but 1) I know you'd ignore it (as your ilk are want to do when presented with inconvenient facts you don't like) and 2) joepistole already did a swell job of doing so.

    It's Texas... you know, the state that keeps screaming they are "going to secede" then don't because they realize they'd go broke within a week if they did...
     
  15. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    nor the nouse to date and reference their documents properly... and ... and... all that info on page 1 with out any introduction or preamble...
    Do Texans like dabbling in fake news as well?
     
  16. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    8,466
    and
    God bless Texas.
     
  17. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,994
    I wouldn't be surprised if any list that had Reagan on top had Obama near the bottom - but you'd think FDR would have beat him out for bottom, and W at least tied for top.
     
  18. Schmelzer Valued Senior Member

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    5,003
    Of course, I have a problem if to kill somebody it is sufficient to name him a terrorist. That means, if no court has established that that person really is a terrorist, which would be a requirement in any state of law.
    There is, of course, also the situation where this is impossible - namely a war. But because a war is a situation incompatible with a civilized government, civilized states restrict wars to particular war zones, together with a lot of other restrictions, like distinguishing combatants from civilians. Outside these zones, the usual rules of the state of law apply. Any killing outside these war zones is restricted to self-defense or murder.
    It is part of military operations against terrorists in a war zone.
    Hitting tanks and vehicles was, obviously, justified by the UNSC resolution which imposed a no-fly zone. I would guess because these tanks have started to fly in that no-fly zone.
    I know that in your opinion these Bandera fascists are freedom fighters defending European or Western values, similar to the child head cutters in Syria. This is simply an illustration of the real meaning of these "Western values".

    https://twitter.com/Souria4Syrians/status/761248812254031872
    Why I should have qualms about Western propaganda fantasies? I don't believe in Western war propaganda. Feel free to believe in the many bombed last hospitals in Aleppo:

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    Instead, the child head cutters have openly and proudly distributed the video where they have murdered the 12yo boy by cutting his head. And the US has continued to support that gang even after this. Again, openly.
    You cannot argue without defamation of Putin?
     
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  19. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Actually Schmelzer it might be worth having a closer look at the Twitter montage image you posted.
    Note context:
    "The last hospital in Aleppo bombed again."
    "The last hospital standing in Aleppo has been destroyed."
    Do you see any difference to the two statements above?

    and whilst you see it as war propaganda it is really free thinking individuals making fear based, knee jerk, stupid and uninformed comments just like Trump does all the time....
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2017
  20. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Schmelzer
    Regards to the recent bombing of the air base near Damascus.
    Did Israel bomb it?
    or
    Did Syria bomb it to make it look like Israel bombed it?
    or
    Did Russia Bomb it to make it look like Israel bombed it?
    or
    did both Syria and Russia bomb it to frame Israel?
    or was it another unknown entity entirely?

    Do you think any news about this will ever be credible regardless of what is reported and who reports it?
     
  21. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    8,828
    The only things that comes to mind are the bank bailout and Obama Care. He's kind of been a ghost over these past eight years, or I just haven't been giving him much attention. I suppose that's why I've not had much comment on him over the years. About all I can say is that he was the first black president.
     
  22. Schmelzer Valued Senior Member

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    5,003
    The point being? Anyway this is all simply cheap war propaganda, and reasonable people simply ignore it. In fact, they not only contradict each other, which was the point of making this composition. They were also in contradiction with the facts on the ground and even with the statements of more reasonable organizations. In fact, hospitals were working in terrorist-controlled areas up to their liberation and continue to work, some who were used by the terrorists as barracks, jails and command centers will now be used as hospitals again.
    There is a difference between "free thinking" and "freely inventing".

    Without doubt, some of these twitterers may be propaganda victims. But a free thinking stupid uninformed guy will not invent some "last hospital destroyed". He copies the "last hospital destroyed" from some other source, without rejecting it as obviously nonsensical war propaganda.

    First, I don't know who bombed it, because I have heard but not cared about this. Second, the very idea that Syria or Russia bombed it to make it look like Israel bombed it is quite nonsensical. Because above do not have any aim to start a war with Israel, which would be the only reason to fake a bombing by Israel. It is well-known, and not really denied by Israel, that Israel attacks Hisbollah forces even on Syrian territory, and also that they "retaliate" if something hits Israel or Israel-occupied territory. It is also known that such "retaliation" acts only against the Syrian army/Hisbollah, and never hits the terrorists. But the Syrian army and the Russians up to now ignore this, simply because it is not in their political interest to start a war with Israel now.
    A reasonable variant where it was not Israel who bombed is that it was an attack by some terrorists, not by whatever airforce. Or (much less probable, because there were clear and certain Russian warnings against them) by coalition airforce. Claims about the harm done by such attacks are usually not reliable. The usual error in claims about losses is, of course, overestimation of enemy losses and underestimation of own losses. But corruption and incompetence can lead also to overestimation of own losses (once there was an enemy attack, all what was damaged/stolen during the last time can be written off as being destroyed by the attack).
     
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  23. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    IMHO ACA was just a massive sell-out to the insurance industry.
    Sure, many more are insured, but did the quality of healthcare improve?
     

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