# Proof Minkowski Spacetime is Poorly Conceived

Discussion in 'Alternative Theories' started by danshawen, Apr 21, 2016.

1. ### OphioliteValued Senior Member

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I understand the technical term for that is "crap". (For one thing it doesn't even parse properly.)

3. ### danshawenValued Senior Member

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Oh, yeah. But if you will notice, I am not the source of that "crap". Just expanding some of rpenner's crap in defense of using the geometric techniques of solid geometry on proportional relative inertialess light propagation time in higher dimensions.

Like nailing jello to a wall of air in its gaseous phase. I don't care how big your n x n matrices or how many tensors there are. It's still crap.

It's hard to talk about such things without getting soiled by some of its many misconceptions.

Parse that, if you can.

Last edited: May 15, 2016

5. ### PhysBangValued Senior Member

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Has this assertion ever been demonstrated to be more than a fantasy?

7. ### danshawenValued Senior Member

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I know all about complex numbers. It is still a vector space; you just can't mix the real parts with the imaginary parts.

Well, space as it relates to time isn't anything like complex numbers. Space IS time. ALL OF IT, not just part of it.

8. ### danshawenValued Senior Member

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Understanding what 'proper time' is, is not an excuse to use it as a preferred reference frame. Unless your mental scaffolding is rusty or otherwise unstable.

When the ratio between time dilations is unity, the ratio of relative time vs <time dilation of> the object of choice is NOT NECESSARILY because they happen to be in the same reference frame. Remember, I am one with relativity.

Think about the twin paradox, in the case in which both twins leave in spaceships that travel in opposite directions at relativistic speeds that are equal. Time dilation will be equal, but the frames may be very different, and FOR A WIDE RANGE 0f equal velocities, even up to +/- c - (10^-100)c.

This is why rest mass is as invariant as c, or more explicitly, +/- c.

Exactly the same sort of invariance happens in the interiors of fundamental particles of matter, which gives rise to their invariant rest masses and inertia. Time dilation at their centers may be the same as in surrounding space, or depending on issues of quantum relativistic rotation, it may give rise to a host of other important fundamental particle characteristics like charge and/or quantum spin and entanglement.

You don't get that far with Mink spacetime. There are several good reasons you don't. The speed of light in a vacuum as a limit to the fastest moving thing you can base an instrument that measures time is only one. That part never was consistent with Maxwell either, even though that is one reason Mink spacetime was originally crafted.

Still with me, or does anyone want this to be my last post? Now tell us, who is your crank?

Last edited: May 15, 2016
9. ### PhysBangValued Senior Member

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You are the only person suggesting that proper time is ever used in this manner. So, I agree with your assessment!

There is no such thing as time dilation in one reference frame. It is very hard to remember something that one had not only never experienced, but that one had only had experiences to the negative.

Yes, please do, while remembering that people who think this is a real paradox are wrong and do not understand relativity theory.
Please stop posting and see a mental health professional. You are such a crank it is merely sad.

10. ### OphioliteValued Senior Member

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Many would greatly appreciate such a noble, though long delayed gesture. (It would certainly be more welcoming than the gesture I am presently making.)

11. ### exchemistValued Senior Member

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Something to do with Agincourt, perhaps?........

12. ### OphioliteValued Senior Member

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It turns out that is an urban myth - or perhaps more accurately, a rural myth. I can't really put my finger on the right word.

13. ### exchemistValued Senior Member

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..or fingers..... Seems nobody knows the origin and it can't have been going that long as Churchill had to have its meaning explained to him. But we digress....

14. ### danshawenValued Senior Member

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-- president Barach Obama, at a commencement speech given at Rutger's, May 2016

15. ### Beer w/StrawTranscendental Ignorance!Valued Senior Member

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OK, so like, I haven't read a lot of this thread, but what was the main point?

Are you wanting to publish something?

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16. ### originHeading towards oblivionValued Senior Member

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Oh for the love of The God, are you really trying to get him going again??

Only in his mind...

17. ### originHeading towards oblivionValued Senior Member

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Last post.

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18. ### danshawenValued Senior Member

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A final set of related links (not a "post"), strictly speaking. Further comments on the content of the links is not solicited.

https://xphysics.wordpress.com/2010/11/01/rybczyk-transformations/

"Millenium Relativity" is not pseudoscience or an alternative theory either, and within it, the Lorentz transformations are used, but Mink spacetime seems to be notably absent and has been replaced by special velocity transforms peculiar to this theory.. A stronger link between time and inertia is very evident. An attempt is made to reconcile GR with some of the new formulas. For the most part, the numerical predictions of both are very, very close to each other.

This internet published research on this theory, due to Joseph Rybczyk, a noted and well educated physicist, was heavily discouraged by the NSF, among other detractors.

When I first read it, many years ago, I thought it was pseudoscience also. Now, I'm not quite as certain.

Finally, an alternative view of relativity and what Western science honestly had to say about its preeminence in the 20th century, as if there was any doubt, much of it was on the ropes during that period also. Like many other discussions of relativity, it seems unclear to whether it is really science or philosophy:

http://www.ekkehard-friebe.de/The-essence-of-special-relativity.pdf

Last edited: May 18, 2016
19. ### PhysBangValued Senior Member

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This is another sign of your delusion. The link you provided, should you actually read it, does not produce the Lorentz transformations, it produces an alternative.

If you believe the Lorentz transformations, like you sometimes pretend, then you have to accept Minkowski. The transformations in your link do not match the Lorentz transformations. This means that they do not match the available observations. The link you provided, should you actually read it, provides exactly the same thing for the alternative that Minkowski did for the Lorentz transformations. That you accept this for an alternative but not for the Lorentz transformations is a sign of your pathology, not of the logical status of any theory.
OK, then show us how this theory does in a real-world application relative to the Lorentz transformations. This is the most basic thing that anyone truly interested in this alternative would do.
Yep, that seems like the kind of scholarship that one would identify with your position.

20. ### PhysBangValued Senior Member

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OMG, this is too fucking funny. It has to be preserved for posterity! Here is the logical problem with SR:

21. ### OphioliteValued Senior Member

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I previously described one of your posts as delusional. I described a later post as seriously delusional.

I now need to describe your latest offering as delusional perception of a reality that is itself delusional.

Astounding!

22. ### danshawenValued Senior Member

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I'm grateful it has amused you. Take care, Ophiolite.

"Scientists do not give up their disputed ideas; they only die." -- Planck

Last edited: May 18, 2016
23. ### PhysBangValued Senior Member

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That's a great quote. Too bad that looking at the actual history of science shows that Plank was wrong. Someone probably pointed that out to him and he then changed his position.

Cranks, however, do not give up their ideas.