You don't want to be anywhere close to eden now, cool a little. There is a reason why God hasn't taken you back yet... you just need to figure out what the reason is.
The topic of this thread is "Proof of the existence of God." Here is my proposal on how to prove the existence of God, proceeding from thinking on facts and logic: step by step. 1. First and before anything else, logic tells us all who are into the proof (or disproof) of the existence of God, we must work together to concur on the concept of God; otherwise it is just talking inanely, each talker spewing words which mean nothing in regard to what God he is talking about -- do you see that? i.e., it is inanely talking among ourselves as we do not know what others are talking about. 2. [ Wait! We have first to work on number 1 and achieve concurrence on the concept of God, otherwise we are into an inane interaction if that is at all any interaction among rational entities. ] *It is possible and actually been successfully done. but it takes time and serious concentrated work thinking on facts and logic, and avoiding all manners of inanities which are indulged in by folks in order to dodge the issue or muddle up things.
You made it clear that there must be only be atheists etc. involved, the unbelievers. Yet you debate(if that's what you call it) is you breaking your own rules, don't blame ignorance, you're a hypocrite. Now I'll pull that plank out of my eye. Jason.Marshall is a believer.
Wow, I take you off ignore and you're still spouting drivel. Show us, if you think it possible, a proof of God through "facts and logic" and we'll happily show you where either your facts are not facts or where your logic is flawed. But to date you have run away from every effort to discuss, or forced others to end their conversation with you through your pathetic nonsense of doing nothing but restating your proposition. So, no excuses now: state your proof, starting with your propositions (including definitions of terms, such as God) and following that with your argument. "Put up or shut up!" is probably the most apt comment I can make.
The problem of evil is a good reason in my opinion to question the existence of a loving God. I mean why does God allow children to suffer like that? The problem of evil and the fact that God allows the innocent to suffer, in my opinion sort of proves that God is either not wholly good or He may even be (but not necessarily) completely evil. I think that this position is called Dystheism, which is related to theodicy. Dystheism is a form of theism which holds that God is either not wholly good or is fully malevolent as a consequence of the problem of evil. Theistic Satanism would be another example.
Thanks everyone for your replies to my post, see below for a repeat of my post. Now, dave, you and I we can have a good dialog, okay. What do you say, should we first work together to come to a concurred on concept of God? {Start quote from Pachomius] Pachomius, Yesterday at 7:18 AM #23 The topic of this thread is "Proof of the existence of God." Here is my proposal on how to prove the existence of God, proceeding from thinking on facts and logic: step by step. 1. First and before anything else, logic tells us all who are into the proof (or disproof) of the existence of God, we must work together to concur on the concept of God; otherwise it is just talking inanely, each talker spewing words which mean nothing in regard to what God he is talking about -- do you see that? i.e., it is inanely talking among ourselves as we do not know what others are talking about. 2. [ Wait! We have first to work on number 1 and achieve concurrence on the concept of God, otherwise we are into an inane interaction if that is at all any interaction among rational entities. ] Jason.Marshall said: ↑ [ Asterisk added by Pachomius ] This may not be easy* to comprehend but it is not a right to know god but a privileged. Truth= God=1 so everything that is true will be equal to God and every thing that is not true = non existence= -1 *It is possible and actually been successfully done. but it takes time and serious concentrated work thinking on facts and logic, and avoiding all manners of inanities which are indulged in by folks in order to dodge the issue or muddle up things. Pachomius, Yesterday at 7:18 AM Report #23 {End quote of Pachomius]
It is easy to know God. Proof: God created the universe. And, It is impossible to disprove this. One cannot possibly disprove that the all powerful creator didn't design reality. Otherwise, you can try to but you run into contradiction. Because it is a fact that God created the universe. I actually discovered this proof on my own not recently a long time ago.
dywyddr, you are making a bogus post here! It is a fact that a creator created the universe. If you state it is not a fact, you intend to go back aganist logic. I ask you to refute this using such logic, since, in point of fact a creator created the universe (a logical statement) is true. I have no need to rebut your post, it is totally bogus nonsense.
Nope. Nope. Not even close to being a fact. It's an unsupported claim with no evidence. It's not true, it's a merely a claim on your part. And it's not logical, it's based on belief.
It's based on belief is the best you have? You cannot disprove the statement dywyddr, nor can you disprove the fact.
I don't need to. The main problem here - and it's YOUR problem - is that you can't show that it is a fact. It is, as I said earlier, nothing but an unsupported belief.
Dywyddr I need not argue with you anymore it is a logical fact and in that manner therefore a constraint upon what is undoubtably the most factual thing ever Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! If you have a problem with logics dywyddr I suggest you stay out of it Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Then you should have no problem showing that it is. I'll wait... Unsupported claim. Since you haven't presented ANY logic on what basis do infer that I have a problem with it?
Dywyddyr, I'd give up if I were you: there is simply no getting between a fool and his foolishness. They don't understand what a fact is, nor what logic is, nor what a belief is, yet they spout utter drivel everywhere they can. They live off "well, you can't disprove it therefore it's true!", or other such fallacious logic. And they refuse to actually support anything that they claim is more than just a belief on their part. It's a sad state of affairs when such people, who clearly have no idea how to think critically for themselves, become the most vociferous and pervasive on a forum. And while I accept that some leniency as to the requirement for proof / evidence should be given on matters of belief, that leniency should only be applied when those making the statements do so acknowledging that what they are detailing is mere belief. If any moderator is reading - I'd suggest swift moderation and close this nonsense of a thread before it becomes just a troll-fest.
JBrendonK, Imagine a world in which it is a fact that there is no God. Now look at our world and it looks the same as that world you just imagined. Imagine a world in which it is a fact that there is a God. That world would look nothing like our world. If nothing else, it should show you that your statement is merely a claim.
Seattle, I would redirect your response to my response to sarkus. An excellent way to toast the bacon Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
I think "concept" is better used while talking about ideas for making a new car. Concept model. The nature of God is too complex to explain... do you agree?
