Proof that the Christian god cannot exist

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Cris, Jun 21, 2001.

  1. kx000 Valued Senior Member

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    Haha. Questions? Go ahead, I will fill in what the "author" left out.
     
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  3. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Hence your entire argument is based on a fallacious premise.
    Please don't bother posting again.
     
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  5. NMSquirrel OCD ADHD THC IMO UR12 Valued Senior Member

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    Argument from personal incredulity

    Argumentum ad baculum (appeal to the stick, appeal to force, appeal to threat): an argument made through coercion or threats of force to support position

    Reification (hypostatization): a fallacy of ambiguity, when an abstraction (abstract belief or hypothetical construct) is treated as if it were a concrete, real event or physical entity. In other words, it is the error of treating as a "real thing" something which is not a real thing, but merely an idea.

    Argument from fallacy: assumes that if an argument for some conclusion is fallacious, then the conclusion itself is false

    Appeal to ridicule
    An argument in which ridicule or mockery is substituted for evidence.

    AND there should be an addendum to the 'Argument from authority' one, that says an argument based on the posters assumption that they are the authority.

    (sorry, i think i am getting carried away with this fallacy thing..)
     
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  7. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Actually no.
    No one has claimed that omniscience = control (in fact I myself have pointed out numerous times that control is not required).

    Huh?
     
  8. NMSquirrel OCD ADHD THC IMO UR12 Valued Senior Member

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    you quoted "Omniscience and Control are not synonyms."
    and then inferred they were not. (by calling fallacy)
    now you are saying "no one has claimed omniscience = control"
    you did by calling fallacy on his comment.

    I'll just stick with this one;

    Argument from fallacy, you claimed "Hence your entire argument is based on a fallacious premise" ,
    Argument from fallacy assumes that if an argument for some conclusion is fallacious, then the conclusion itself is false.
     
  9. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Er no.
    The argument as presented relies on omniscience being control. Since omniscience is NOT control then the "argument" fails.
     
  10. NMSquirrel OCD ADHD THC IMO UR12 Valued Senior Member

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    No..he is arguing omniscience does not include control..
    did you mean to address Cris, who creationist was referring to, who WAS arguing that omniscience = control..?
     
  11. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Read it again: his "argument" is that since omniscience is not control then the omniscience vs free will is null and void: i.e. he's claiming that others claim omniscience = control (which is not the case).

    No, that's not what Cris is saying.
     
  12. NMSquirrel OCD ADHD THC IMO UR12 Valued Senior Member

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    uh oh..now we are at the point that we are both guilty of..
    reading more into what is said,then is actually said..(i couldn't find the fallacy term for this)(and haven't you argued against doing this very thing to you?)
    nowhere in his post does it say anything about what others claim,so you are in error to assume he is claiming that others claim, as he did not claim anything to that end. ( again..Déjà vu..except with you arguing my point here..)

    ergo, omniscience = control ..
     
  13. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Er:
    No, it's not.
     
  14. NMSquirrel OCD ADHD THC IMO UR12 Valued Senior Member

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    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    ..

    i give up..

    you keep transposing quotes and quote out of context..
     
  15. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Really? Where have I done that?

    Omniscience is not control.
    It's quite simple.
    If omniscience exists then everything is (must, of necessity, be) predetermined.
    Omniscience knows what the future is. It doesn't control that future, it simply "accesses" it: hence it's knowledge not coercion or control.
     
  16. Arioch Valued Senior Member

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    I've always wondered why christians seem so eager to give their god omniscience(and yes NM, it would negate free will as all choices would already be known so no choice could possibly be made) when the bible quite clearly indicates that god doesn't have omniscience.
     
  17. NMSquirrel OCD ADHD THC IMO UR12 Valued Senior Member

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    where?
     
  18. Arioch Valued Senior Member

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    @NM --

    Ever read Genesis? God had to ask Adam and Eve why they were wearing clothes, an omniscient god wouldn't have had to do so. Also an omniscient god wouldn't get angry when humans failed him because he'd have already known that they were going to do so. There's any number of places in the bible like that. Nowhere does the bible even come close to saying that god is omniscient.

    So why are christians so eager to give god that trait, especially when it means that they can't use their favorite excuse for the existence of evil(free will)?
     
  19. NMSquirrel OCD ADHD THC IMO UR12 Valued Senior Member

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    have you read the bible all the way through? (how do you know 'Nowhere does the bible even come close to saying'?) i notice you did not bring any verses to back up your opinion.

    and i already know you would not accept any alternate perspective regarding this, so why should i answer?
     
  20. kx000 Valued Senior Member

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    Blahbity blah blah. Just because he "knows" the outcome doesn't mean it will happen. He knows it ends in tribulation, but there is still a shot. You are getting progressivly worse.
     
  21. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Then he doesn't know it.

    Either he doesn't know or there isn't a "shot".

    And you're still contradicting yourself.
     
  22. Big Chiller Registered Senior Member

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    I don't know why you insist the biblical or Abrahamic God isn't omniscient.
     
  23. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    It's quite simple: as with much else in the Bible, there are contradictory statements -
    God has to ask.

    Oops, he asked again...

    And again...

    (just some examples).
     

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