"proof that the christian god can't exist, debunked"

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Mrs.Lucysnow, Jan 15, 2010.

  1. TheVisitor The Journey is the Reward Registered Senior Member

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    I guess I get carried away sometimes...
    I was joking about the circle thing, seemed funny at the moment, but I need to apologize.
    Having fun at the expence of others isn't right...sorry about that M*W.
    We all need to play nice, including me.

    Resistance is not always a bad thing, sometimes it makes you stronger.
    In searching for their answers...may these debates be good for you as well.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2010
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  3. ChildOfGod777 Registered Member

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    Wow, yeah. True this is the Science Forums... most people are here to talk about science and there disbelief in the ALMIGHTY.

    I also realize that ALMOST no one that comes on these sites is here to LEARN or LISTEN. They are here to SHARE & TELL. My chances of helping anyone see the truth is slim to none. Maybe I should just realize that? lol

    As for the MYSTORY lady. I'm afriad you got it all wrong. You are way off. BUT GOOD LUCK TO YA!!!! lol

    I didn't just "believe" what my parents told me. I read the bible, study, I have a personal relationship with Jesus. He is in my life, guides me, helps me. It's amazing the things that He does. I'm for sure walking with the Lord. And no one could convince me otherwise.

    If you all read what I just wrote in the last 5 posts.... you will see that I believe if God wants you coming to heaven, He'll get you one way or another! He never fails to save those he chooses

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    Praying for you all!
     
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  5. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Good start, but then you spoil it...

    Really?
    You know that how?
    Proof?

    Oops, massive supposition.
     
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  7. TheVisitor The Journey is the Reward Registered Senior Member

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    You know.... I wasn't done editing that post yet.
    You seem to be everywhere at once. How do you do that?

    But since you brought it up I don't think it's a "massive" supposition at all.
    Like M.*W. and I both mentioned, the Bible is at the same time both literal and metaphorical.

    Perhaps you would like to point out a scripture that doesn't reflect Jesus Christ in at least one of these two ways?
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2010
  8. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    I'm a sad individual with nothing else to do in my life.

    It's rather hard to be revelatory of someone who in all probability didn't actually exist.
     
  9. ChildOfGod777 Registered Member

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    In all seriousness mr dywyddyr.... Why do you think this way? Ever been in church? Every prayed to God? Or where you raised to just think whatever? Did you study science and make up your own mind? Were you scared by an event that makes you denie God? What's the story? There must be a reason...
     
  10. TheVisitor The Journey is the Reward Registered Senior Member

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    Good point. Even your statement reveals Him in the scriptures.
    They state there is a set time for His kingdom to come to power, until then He has gracefully chosen to remain in the background.
    The powers that be must be allowed to have their time.
    The fact you pointed this out shows His intention to remain "invisible" to the world up till now has been a success.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2010
  11. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Another question would be: Why do you think this way?

    Yes.

    Not really.

    Not really.

    Amateur psychology now?
    Correction: it's because there's no reason to believe.

    How? Just because a bunch of people wrote something years ago doesn't give it any validity.

    Another one of those self-sustaining arguments...
     
  12. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    Maybe I don't need help. Maybe you are just spouting the same religious BS I hear everywhere. Many people reap the benefits of meditation, which is similar to prayer only there is no supernatural component (which is unnecessary). There's nothing special about praying to Jesus, it's the same as meditating on a rock. There's no God, no heaven, no afterlife. Science offers excellent explanations of why we are here, and they are based on evidence, not mythology.
     
  13. TheVisitor The Journey is the Reward Registered Senior Member

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    2,046
    You made some very good points, and on the surface I would have to agree.
    Let's dig a little deeper than just the surface for a minute.
    Using your choice of science as reference point let's take just one example.
    Light. You can see it so you believe it's real enough. Right? OK.

    But you can only see a narrow spectrum of the actual bandwidth that truly exists.
    Ultraviolet and infrared are out of the range of your senses.
    What makes you so sure nothing else of material substance is out of your range as well?

    Need another?
    Science has proven there are entire worlds you can not see without some kind of outside help.
    The Micro and the Macro, the speed of molecular vibration.
    Slowed down the same molecules that appear solid, "disappear" when they are excited and speed up.
    They are still just as real but you can no longer see them.
    Just a few examples of how your statements are invalidated by the very science you thought supported you.

    How many more examples are out there just beyond the range of your perception.
    The Bible speaks of quite a few.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2010
  14. PsychoticEpisode It is very dry in here today Valued Senior Member

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    3,452
    Nothing I like seeing more than God reduced to some undetectable bandwidth. God's going deeper and deeper into the unknown with each passing day. Wonderful. As I said in another thread, God used to be on a mountaintop.
     
  15. TheVisitor The Journey is the Reward Registered Senior Member

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    OK,... I've got to admit I got a "chuckle" out of that one.
    But as for the rest of it...

    I covered that in post #27 to Dywrddyr.
    Please try to keep up.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2010
  16. PsychoticEpisode It is very dry in here today Valued Senior Member

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    No need, the plot never changes, only God's location.
     
  17. earth Registered Senior Member

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    Every indication is kingdoms are going extinct. And it is wishful thinking to believe human civilization is going to return to its antiquated past. The prediction is less kingdoms in the future not more of them.
     
  18. TheVisitor The Journey is the Reward Registered Senior Member

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    2,046
    True enough. Location is one aspect that is changing.
    "On earth as it is in heaven"...but it's not the "only" thing that's changing.

    "Human civilization" has appeared to advance in knowledge for a few millennia.
    But our past wasn't as "antiquated" as you have been led to believe.
    What we fell from, and are being restored to, is far beyond this kind of knowledge.
    It's like the difference between the limited capacity of a single computer, and the resources of one connected to the Net.
    That is just a crude comparison. It's a connection we fell from that's being restored.
    There will be kingdoms and survivors left to tell the tale. Isaiah 66:15-19.
    After the smoke clears, and His kingdom is established on the earth ...there will be peace.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2010
  19. PsychoticEpisode It is very dry in here today Valued Senior Member

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    Then Earth would be as mysterious a divine location as God's unearthly realm. Why move God around?
     
  20. John99 Banned Banned

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    Wow, never heard anyone say that before.
     
  21. scifes In withdrawal. Valued Senior Member

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    as usual Dywyddyr is being selective in his replying.
    btw, do you mind me calling you dwyder? much simpler to spell..

    demonstrate.


    when we assume the cat will make a certain choice, let's say 80%, does that takes 80% of the cat's free will?:bugeye:
    what the heck does knowledge of the choice has to do with MAKING the choice?

    whatever we might tell ourselves about choice?
    there you go, answered yourself.
    the rails are unseen the script is unknown, can't you make your choice? steer yourself?

    the choice is predestined..
    the choice is predestined..
    yes, it is a choice, as the dictionary defines it..that "choice".. the one and only.
     
  22. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    I'm addressing (and debunking) your entire rgument, how is that being selective?

    Yes I do mind. If you must wreck my name at least simply shorten it to "D".

    I did: but it involves you reading the rest of my post.

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    Of course not: this is an illustration of your failure to understand the argument.
    When we say "There is an 80% chance the cat will pick.." we are operating under assumptions: the choices (or possible outcomes) are much larger than we consider - if the cat falls over dead we'd simply say "Oh, that doesn't count, we'll try again"*.

    If the outcome (A or B) is known irrefutably beforehand then there was no choice, whatever we might tell ourselves.

    Of course not. Again.
    If the script is already written that we will choose A then how, possibly, could we choose B?
    And if we could not choose B then the illusion that we had a choice is merely that: an illusion.

    If god exists and choices ARE predestined the dictionary definition (by definition) becomes invalid.

    If god knows that we will choose A then we MUST choose A, otherwise god will be proven wrong.
    It's that simple.
    Either the choice is known, and therefore is not a choice, or it is not known and we do have a choice.

    * Some of these assumptions are known and unstated (for example the cat might die, the universe might explode), and some are unknown.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2010
  23. scifes In withdrawal. Valued Senior Member

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    2,573
    the argument is composed of more than what you replied to, for example, you said nothing about my entity a and entity b example, which is a way of a demonstration of my point.
    lol no prob D, does it have to be capital?

    examples please. ones we can work on..

    if knowing the outcome of the cat's choice by 80% of certainty doesn't take away 80% of the cat's free will, why would knowing the outcome of its choice with a 100% degree of certainty strip it of it's free will and ability to chose 100%?
    hope you are seeing it now..

    possible combinations of "know" and "choose":

    1-knowledge, no choice:
    god knows you'll die naked, and forces you to die so, you have no choice in the matter, he sends a demon to strip you and slit your throat.

    2-choice, no knowledge:
    there is no god, the future does not exist, only as it folds into present, you see the biggest meteor coming to wipe up your city, you choose whether to die naked or not.

    3-no choice, no knowledge:
    same as the previous scenario(2), except a junkie across the street pins you to the ground and insists you die naked, or any other thing that is forced upon you and takes away your ability to carry out your choice, like sudden death, or whatever.

    4-choice, knowledge:
    god knows whether you die naked or not, the meteor is coming your way, you wonder if it'll hurt more if you have your cloths on or not, you hesitate, make up your mind, and do it.
    fifty thousand billion years ago, a holy piece of parchment had your name, longitude and latitude coordinates, date and time of death up to the milli second, and the exact size, color, brand name of the cloths you're wearing(or not) at the time of your death.

    mister D, did you make the choice of how to die or no? were you forced it? does that stop it being known? am i not awesome?

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    'a 'a...cont-ra-diction..
    the script is already written that we will "what" A?
    why would we not choose B? well because we chose A of course:m:
    if wanted to go against the script and choose B instead, the script would turn out to be B and not A, and here you see how crucial it is that we DON'T KNOW what is written in the script, so we can't even claim we are forced on anything, because we don't know what it's we're supposed to do, to try and go against it.


    ...

    capitalizing MUST changes nothing,
    mister D, you are offered a snickers and a twix bar, listen carefully, you MUST choose your predestined choice, we all know that you're rebellious and a trouble seeker and you don't like being forced into anything, so you'll try to disoby and choose the one other than the one predetermined to you, but uh, the catch is, we don't know which one you MUST choose...heh, it's like saying you MUST choose that which you MUST choose..nothing new there..
    yeah it is, hope you get it now.
    lol, demonstrate, by an example..
     

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