"proof that the christian god can't exist, debunked"

No it isn't coercion of any sort: it doesn't matter whether we know that god knows it or not.
If the future is known it must be fixed. If it's fixed we don't have choices.

Wrong again: see above.

No you can't, because if you pick the one that god says you weren't going to pick then that means god was wrong and that he didn't know.

Because if it's pre-determined then you didn't choose.

If it's predestined then choice is an illusion...

Exactly: if god knows (i.e. it's predetermined) then whatever you do (even if you think you're making random choices) aren't choices since it was already written down that it would happen.
You're following a script - which is fixed - even though you haven't read it.
And you can't deviate from that script, because whatever you choose was decided beforehand.

 

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that's basically all what you're saying.
couple clicks off the OP don't you think?

 

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Which you're supposed to be debunking...

Hardly.

Answer the question: if god knows you're going to pick A how can you pick B?

 

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In the context of this thread, that is one of the toughest questions ever asked in the Religion sub-forum. I'm jealous that I never thought of it. I hope the answer is just as good.

 

No need to be that jealous.
When I die I'll leave you my brains in my will. Then you can think of questions like that.

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No problem, I'll put it up on the shelf next to my @#$^%$&! collection

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. Sorry, my reply got a little garbled there

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. I thought I had some good questions in the Creation thread that theists shied away from. Every now and then you see a good question and say to yourself. 'Man , I've got to remember that". So yes, your question to Scifes is one of those. If theists can't answer a question or they avoid it altogether then it most certainly qualifies as worthy. I just hope Scifes doesn't pull an LG and say we can't comprehend God or His ways. I have my fingers crossed that he comes in with something good but for the life of me I don't know how.

 

I do not like to see people go to hell, but it is not my will that happens. God does not enjoy sending people to hell, but it must be done.

Peter 3:9 (New International Version)

9The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

Romans 8:
28And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him,[a] who have been called according to his purpose. 29For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

Ephesians 1

4For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5he[c] predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will—

 

Why do Buddhists deserve everlasting torture?

 

John 14:6 (New International Version)

6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

 

I could interpret that to mean, "no one comes to enlightenment except in the same way I did".

 

Of course he likes it. He decided from the start who was going and who wasn't, and then set us up to go (or not).

Your own quotes condemn god as an arrogant sadist.

 

Yes, I suppose you could interpret it that way. As long as you are ignorant to the rest of the text.

 

scifes,

OK.

If a result is predetermined then there can be no choice. A choice implies multiple possible results. A predetermined result means there is only a single outcome. The terms "choice" and "predetermined" are mutually exclusive.

"taking the choice" can be no more than an illusion since there is only one possible outcome.

"means nothing"? So, your point?

"result assigned to him"? What does this mean?

Sounds like a good guess. How does this debunk the paradox between predetermined events and free will?

 

scifes,

If something has the ability to know future events there is no essential implication that the existence of the knowledge would cause the event.

 

scifes,

You haven't understood the argument yet. If the knowledge exists then there is no choice. As I have said many times the two conditions are mutually exclusive. Either there is a free choice and there is no knowledge, or there is knowledge and hence there is no choice. The two conditions cannot coexist.

 

Try again,

That's an admission that God does not exist. He is characterized as omnipotent (all powerful), i.e. if he really doesn't want people to go to hell he has the power to create the scenario where they do not. If he chooses not to use that power then it must be because he does want people to suffer. To deliberately cause people to suffer needlessly is evil and that is a direct contradiction to his other claimed characteristic that God is omnibenevolent (all good). Either he is not all powerful and is therefore impotent, or he is evil. Either way the claims for such a god cannot be met and hence he cannot actually exist.

But only because of the scenario that he artificially created. Had he not wanted people to sin he could have created us with the wisdom and knowledge to understand the issues clearly so that sinning would always be avoided. Since he chose to create us imperfect then it is because he did want us to sin. Either way he is the direct result of our actions because of his design and hence we cannot be held accountable for his despotic nature.

Looks like preaching and is irrelevant to the thread topic.

Please stay on topic or have your posts deleted.

 

i llllove giving short yet complex answers to short yet complex questions..

this reminds me of skin's question to LG, "can god create a rock he can't carry?"
...
but you've gotta wait for it

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ok,
give me a model of a choice made out of free will, even if it was an imaginary one.