Propaganda is everywhere!

Discussion in 'Free Thoughts' started by Pollux V, Sep 15, 2001.

1. thecurly1Registered Senior Member

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1,024
Patriotism is not propaganda.

These are real emotions, the government never ordered that Old Glory be hung in every window, and displayed in prominence.

The government didn't cue the newsanchors to cry on camera, or the family members and firefighters to have their hearts explode.

These aren't made up things, or orders from the top. This isn't propoganda sponsored by the United States government. Propaganda is a fake, or misrepresented information provided by the government.

If the US starts lying about whats happening in the war, with the exception of casulities and the situation itself, I belive that lying about where we are or friendly, or enemy troop movements is warented.

Becarefull in war, censorship is allowed by law.

3. QuaidRegistered Member

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Propaganda

thecurly1,

I agree that the firefighters heart's exploding, news anchor's crying, and flags in peoples windows are not fake. I agree that this tragedy has spurred much emotion. I do think, though, that this government and the economic rulers (companies are basically top-down tyrannies where the power is concentrated, and therefore the heads of huge companies wield extreme power in the country and the world) spread propaganda and use it in their own best interest, regardless of 'the people'. By propaganda I don't just mean lies, but also the hiding of truth, the asking of certain questions, the display of certain views and ideas but not others. The fact is the mainstream news is highly centralized (a few main networks) and all of these are top-down tyrannies. Therefore the power is concentrated into a few hands. To me mainstream journalists are like actors, and the segments that are put together for people are like movies. You can structure them to present certain ways of looking at an issue and spur certain emotions, as long as the viewers don't question what is presented, how it is presented, or the viewers simply trust your organization as 'Experts'. In my city (Tampa) we have a community radio station that is not run by corporations and is funded by listener sponsorship. I value 88.5 FM very highly. They are an affiliate station of Pacifica, and have real people and ask real questions. They are a breath of fresh air. I am not saying 'mainstream media' is evil. It is just nice to finally have other perspectives. I believe that plays a large part in freedom and democracy. I believe there would and should be much more diversity and more perspectives on the news in order to give the people food for thought, not the party line.

5. wet1WandererRegistered Senior Member

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8,616
It was never my meaning to insult any of you.
It is just that I am very afraid, this is going to get worse and worse.
I see television too, I am not crazy.
I do understand what you feel, I feel it too, don't you understand.
It doesn't matter if you live in America or anywhere else.
The attacks has had great impact to the whole world. What do you think was going through me when I saw all that people jump out of the windows.

I am so sorry, I could not look at it after a second.
I didn't believe my eyes at first.
But it were really people who jumped out of the windows.
And that damn camera's take it on film and show it over and over on television.
My whole body hurts for that people.
It doesn't matter to me where the people were coming from.
Or where they lived, in what country.
It was terrible, there are no words for this.
No words, only pain.
And not understand why.

7. MuliBoypsykyogiRegistered Senior Member

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266
Americas new war

Ok. Am I right in assuming that Bush is doing better in popularity polls by now?
That the jokes about his stupidity has dwindled away?

Yes, it was a shocking attack. It felt utterly unreal and trying to fathom the pain and loss involved is beyond my capability.
But to me, the scariest part of the whole catastrophe has been seeing the war machine instantly roll into action. Good ol´WW2 style propaganda and speeches all abound.

George W raising to the occasion. Nothing stimulates the economy as a good old fashioned war. Nothing makes the people trust their government as blowing away some godforsaken barbarians.

Oh yes, vietnamam wasn´t so popular, but look at Kuwait. Hippies and Pinkos are out of style.

I fear sorry for you few Americans that speak against this coming assault as the patriotism and bloodlust escalates.

Being a redneck rightwing fanatic seems to be the new cool in the near future US.

Scary stuff indeed. Ppl in america have shown such a gentle and caring side in the aftermath of the bombing. Sad to see that emotion drown out in the seemingly inevitable war that your government is dedicated to.

Well... didn´t expect things to get better before they got worse

8. kmguruStaff Member

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11,757
What do you expect? We human beings have to show our true color. The nature of a scorpion is....

Look at Pakistanis. They are doing the samething. And if this would have happened in Germany, the new third reich would have been born...all the browns would have been kicked out...

Welcome to Sciforum MuliBoy....

9. wet1WandererRegistered Senior Member

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8,616
I agree with you Kmguru.
If these attacks were happened in Germany, next to my country, then we should stay there with nothing, but feeling anger and wanting to get these damn terrorists who are left behind and were a help to these attacks.
Then Germany probably would not hesitate to announce war, because in Germany, the politicians are as bad as in every country. How much corruption by politicians is already come up in Germany and with this hate to moslims, I have to see what happens.

In my country, next to Germany, have been riots. To moslim people. I hate this.
The Netherlands is a good land to live in, but oh, why must these people always fight. Now are the moslims the target.
Where does it stop??
I hear of riotts every where in Europe. Against moslims. All of a sudden all moslims are bad people.
This is not right!!

The only thing I want to say is that I really hope there is not coming a war.
I do understand the American people who say that they want justice.
Of course you do, so do I...
But not a world war, I have such bad feelings, and they grow every day.
I am so afraid what will come of this, so afraid.

10. wet1WandererRegistered Senior Member

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8,616
I would say it was high time to go after Osama Bin Laden. Even if he was not responcible for the WTC attack. He is responcible for the Cole incident, the barracks bombing, the root of the hostilities that occured in Somilia against US troops had its training in some of Bin Laden's "advisors" who taught them how to bing down aircraft. Before that no such incident had occured. And the are others in his string of accumplishments. These acts alone he should be hunted for. We have losts hundreds of citizens in the above mentioned attacks. Why should he recieve some kind of stay while we figure if he is also responcible for the WTC attack? Why such we give him more time to go cover his tracks and hide? He has already shown his colors and has shown by his actions that he deserves to be hunted and caught as much as any rabbit. And should the WTC attack be shown to also be of his planning and financing how many times can you punish him? surely not enough for every individual that died.

11. thecurly1Registered Senior Member

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1,024
To MuliBoy:

Being from Sweden I'm increasingly suprised about you supposid knowledge about American politics and OUR president.

Was Sweden even in the Second World War? No, I don't think so.

Speeches and propaganda are two different things. None of what you have been seeing is propaganda.

Wars no longer stimulate the economy. The vast military-industrial complex no longer exists, for two reasons. The first being that wars aren't fought in WWII style. The military is already equipt with men and material, so that domestic production of them is limited in war. The second reason being that most Americans, aren't any longer employed by industrial/manufacturing industries. Instead they are employed by information, goods & services, or high-tech fields.

One of the major reasons why we left Vietnam is because we were hemmoraging money to fight. Remember the Gulf War in 1991? What happened in '92, a recession. This disproves any theory that all wars bring prosperity.

No one in any country has the slighest fraction of what we are going through right now. I didn't say that to offend everyone sticking with us, but instead those who are against us.

MuliBoy, you have a lot to learn about Americans.

12. wet1WandererRegistered Senior Member

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8,616
Maybe not every American is the same...

13. MuliBoypsykyogiRegistered Senior Member

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266
Haha, well yeah didn´t you know we all live in America?
The whole western world excists in a state of americana.
We see the same talkshows, news and movies as you.

As for Sweden not being involved in ww2. I guess the sad truth of how many of ppl in power here in sweden were pro nazi haven´t been cabled out to the rest of the world. Oh yes, swedens fatcats were sure to stay on the good side of of the expected winners in that conflict. But as soon as the wind turned they quickly pulled down the swastikas in the dining room and crouched behind the flawed faccade of neutrality.

Yes, I live in sweden, but my roots are in the north of finland. My grandfather fought against the invading russians, and my parents have memories of hiding from sight as the planes flew over their farms. When the war was over my grandad burned all memorabilia from the conflict. There was no glory or reason in war then, and there is none now.

Terrorism is horrible and hits the innocent. But war is exactly the same thing, only in a much larger scale. It serves no purpose at all.
What will be the tally of this conflict?
Will there be any positive effects at all?

A new generation of anti-american fundamentalists with lucid memories of having foreign troops bombing their homes and killing their relatives. There is no such thing as a smartbomb.

As the thread topic was about propaganda I just tried to express my unease on how such a tragic catastrophe is being utilized by the state as a mean of gaining support. It is a known fact that war makes the ppl support the president and government. And that trust also stables economy and increases growth. This is not exclusive to americans but just the nature of the beast.

And I think it´s time ppl realised that everything they see or hear in the media is propaganda. Everything is presented through the perception of the presenter. This is my concern, that most of the populace are blind to the fact that they are being manipulated and strongly suggested what to think nonstop. Everywhere.

As a newbie here I hope I´m not starting on the wrong foot

You all seem to be fine ppl and I thank you for your welcomes and am looking forward to numerous discussions on hopefully happier subjects.

14. Bebelinakospla.comValued Senior Member

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5,036
Yes, yes, yes....

You think you´re so smart MuliBoy...

*LOVE*

15. QuaidRegistered Member

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Bravo Muliboy! Well said.

16. wet1WandererRegistered Senior Member

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8,616
Ok, Muliboy.
Than I say it too...

Well said....

And welcome on the sci forums.
Nice, another person from Sweden.
Do you and Bebelina know eachother?

17. GodlessObjectivist MindRegistered Senior Member

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4,197
The End!! to privacy

U.S. Considers Face Scanners for Airports - Paper
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. government and aviation officials are poised to begin using facial recognition systems to scan airport terminals for suspected terrorists, Monday's Washington Post reported.

The paper said a government committee appointed by Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta (news - web sites) to improve airport security, received a briefing on Thursday from the inventor of a leading facial recognition system, who said equipment could be installed and operating within a few weeks.

The scanner company's president told the committee the system could be linked to cameras at security checkpoints and transmit information about suspected terrorists to government officials via the Internet, creating what he called a ''nationwide shield.''

The committee, in a draft of a report to be presented to Mineta by Oct. 1, has included a recommendation to deploy such systems, the Post said, quoting a committee official.

Officials are considering Boston's Logan International Airport and another international airport for initial deployment of facial recognition systems.

It's a technology that holds a tremendous amount of promise,'' the committee official said. We were impressed about how the technology works.''

The FaceIt system creates a digital map of a person's face, translating the contours into mathematical formulas that the company claims are nearly as distinguishing as a fingerprint. The faceprint'' is compared with a database of images.

Anonimity be damned, here in the states we are becoming Nazi Germany and everyone is blind by the fact. Check this out;

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ARTICLE5/

As traditionally my post are always long, but hey!! I've got lots to say, lol.
Check this out!!.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/

well that's all for now, but keep your eyes open, look at how we are loosing our Republic. The war is not "out there" it's here at home.

18. BaaronRegistered Member

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2
Organizations watch the Media

There are organizations that watchdog the media.

http://www.fair.org is the first that comes to mind. I'm sure that you can find others.

baaron

19. QuaidRegistered Member

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14
Facial Scanning

Here in Tampa I believe we were the first city to have this facial scanning technology tested (in the US). I believe they tried it at the superbowl with little succes, and then they implemented it in Ybor city (part of our downtown district). There have been a number of protests, people wearing paper bags over their heads, or shirts with drawings of a bare backside saying "scan this". I am afraid with the recent events on 9/11, the country may be more accepting of this "big brother" technology out of fear for their safety. I would tend to agree with Godless. This is not a good thing "for the people".

I read in a previous post that 'law abiding' citizens should have nothing to worry about, and that it would only be the people who have something to hide that should worry (I am sure these were not the exact words, but I think it is the general idea). I am very wary of trusting those in power, be it political or economical (government or capitalist). The point is that if they are allowed to implement such a system nationwide, then THEY will decide who warrants watching. Image if you are demonstrating and staging protests against capitalism (peacefully) or even publically raising deep thought provoking questions which question the political or economic leaders decisions or right to power, don't you think it would be in their best interest to monitor you and potentially 'take care of you'? I know it wouldn't be legal, but if it is done quietly and under wraps, who would know? Besides, in the interest of 'national security' they seem to be able to do just about anything. It reminds me of the time Hitler and the Nazis burned the Reichstag and blamed the Communists. The germans became worried for their safety (understandably) and before you knew it the country was under marshall law and Hitler had dictatorial power. The country didn't come out of that state until after the war, over ten years later! By the way, they had a republic before the Third Reich also - the Weimar Republic.

20. wet1WandererRegistered Senior Member

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8,616
Yes, correct.
That is what happened in Germany.

21. kmguruStaff Member

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11,757
The Nazis took over USA? May be not...
Face scanners are OK ( every ATM has a camera) as long as it does not turn an innocent person to a killer. Knowing that the system is "almost" good, it should be treated as such and the activities behind the scene should be managed by professionals.

Basically, we are going to track a certain group of people such as any student coming from an Arab like country and track his whereabouts. When he comes close to an airport, crop duster, flight school, chemical factory, or any other risk area, an alarm bell will sound somewhere deep in a mountain, where banks of people sitting and watching movements of the suspects on a screen by "mapquest".

What we really need to do is have a GPS chip, embedded to the driver license or ID card that sends a signal as to your whereabouts at all times. Someday we will have a GPS chip and an ID marker injected into your body. Today, NORAD tracks foreign objects in the sky. Now their job will be to track foreign people on USA soil. Neat idea.

22. MuliBoypsykyogiRegistered Senior Member

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266
Yes. We know each other quite well...
I am her personal mushroom picker

Nice to meet yall

On the subject of surveilance, I saw "enemy of the state" for the first time yesterday. Great movie.
Having been suspiciously minded towards authorities all my life nothing in the movie felt like an eyeopener. What truly freaks me out though is the thought of webcams in public bathrooms. I can´t use a booth without checking for a hidden camera first.
That is really one of the most disturbing novelties in this IT-society

23. kmguruStaff Member

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11,757
This is just the tip of the iceberg. Before you know it, as you are born, your DNA will be scanned. If you want a child, there will be DNA screening. They are happening and will continue.

An old story in India goes like this. A group of Aryans (Indians) and the Chinese, left their respective planets from the constellation of Mizar (a binary star system) for a new world and settled down on earth many thousand years ago. They were anti-technologists who kept only one instrument with them - a tricorder to catalog the medicinal properties of earth's plant life which is recorded in the third Veda book.

Their planets were so gleaming with steel and concrete that when they reached on earth, they got too emotional and wrote their first observations in Rig-Veda.

May be we are coming full circle.